Opinion of mid-1990s NYC?

[fezzyfestoon]

Of course there plenty of other factors, not to mention the latter statistic is 5 years after he left office. But one can decrease the murder rate without harassing marijuana users and shutting down night clubs. Minneapolis greatly dropped its murder rate from the "Murderapolis" one in the mid-90s without doing anything of the sort.

I didn't say you couldn't.  I have a problem with the assertion that all Giuliani did was target clubs and pot-heads.  And the targeting he did do in the Times Square area completely transformed and revitalized it.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Well I much prefer NYC now to its former days as one of the most dangerous places in the country. I don't imagine you'll find too many New Yorkers who would pine for the glory days except for those involved in the dark side of the city.

I like being able to walk around not having to worry about being mugged at any minute. 

[Brittain33]

I spent a summer there in 1995 near the Columbia campus and there were many areas that are reasonably safe now that were no-go zones then in Manhattan, probably many more in the outer boroughs which I can't claim to know. I remember walking across Central Park from west to east in mid-afternoon and being offered drugs three times. Also walking east down 42nd street from the Port Authority to Times Square in mid-day and have the street be totally abandoned and empty, with shuttered theaters on both sides. And yet the city was much safer than it was in the 1970s and 1980s by then. The theaters were closed by then I believe because the area was midway from being converted from peep shows to Disney.

The flow of money through the city in the years after the mid-90s was amazing. Even if most of it stayed in the hands of a few, the city as a whole has completed a transformation that started long before the mid-1990s. 

[Brittain33]

I didn't say you couldn't.  I have a problem with the assertion that all Giuliani did was target clubs and pot-heads.  And the targeting he did do in the Times Square area completely transformed and revitalized it.

Right... I wouldn't spend time in Times Square now, but I surely wouldn't have gone there in the 1980s when it was "authentic."

It was kind of ridiculous for people getting off the buses from NJ and all other points west at the Port Authority to have to run a gamut of adult stores and peep shows for several blocks.

[Franzl]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

[Franzl]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

and your definition of freedom is having the freedom to be robbed or shot anywhere you go?

[they don't love you like i love you]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

and your definition of freedom is having the freedom to be robbed or shot anywhere you go?

No, the freedom to go to clubs without them being harassed by the police or being able to get away with non-crimes like marijuana and prostitution without harassment again and being able to open a strip club or sex business without it being shut down by the city.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

Total freedom isn't something I want to live to see if it means no laws, police, or order. I guess that makes me a freedom hating authoritarian.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

My neighborhood is full of "happy ending" massage parlors and pot dealers, and it's quite safe. The more dangerous neighborhood to the east has little of those actually.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

My neighborhood is full of "happy ending" massage parlors and pot dealers, and it's quite safe. The more dangerous neighborhood to the east has little of those actually.

One size does not fit all. Just because your neighborhood is full of things like that doesn't necessarily mean it will work in every other large city. In fact, we know it will not work in NYC because of its past history. Minneapolis has not been the hotbed for crime and gangs like New York, nor does it have the same demographics or history. New York is a place that needs a larger police force to keep the peace, or things deteriorate. It has already been proven. 

[fezzyfestoon]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

and your definition of freedom is having the freedom to be robbed or shot anywhere you go?

No, the freedom to go to clubs without them being harassed by the police or being able to get away with non-crimes like marijuana and prostitution without harassment again and being able to open a strip club or sex business without it being shut down by the city.

Once again you're letting your ignorance get in the way of reality.  To go to NYC it is very difficult not to have to encounter 42nd St at some point.  What you're arguing takes away everyone else's freedom to simply BE in the city without being CONSTANTLY harassed by trench coat flashers, transvestite hookers, aggressive homosexuals, drug pushers, gang members, and cracked out homeless.  Every single one of those "clubs" in Times Square REEKED of actual, dangerous criminal behavior and made it impossible for most people to safely navigate the city.  There are plenty of raunchy clubs in NYC today, but none that are allowed to spew the trash of the city out its doors and into the streets that EVERYONE has the right to use and enjoy safely.  But what does that matter, right?  The only thing you're capable of seeing is your ability to do what YOU want.  Who cares what that means for the rest of the world?  As long as little boy gets what little boy wants, everyone else has to sit and watch and shut up.  Seriously, grow the fuck up and get a damn clue you ignorant moron.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

My neighborhood is full of "happy ending" massage parlors and pot dealers, and it's quite safe. The more dangerous neighborhood to the east has little of those actually.

One size does not fit all. Just because your neighborhood is full of things like that doesn't necessarily mean it will work in every other large city. In fact, we know it will not work in NYC because of its past history. Minneapolis has not been the hotbed for crime and gangs like New York, nor does it have the same demographics or history. New York is a place that needs a larger police force to keep the peace, or things deteriorate. It has already been proven. 

Uh, same time period Minneapolis was known as "Murderapolis" as said above, not really an issue now. My city is smart enough to know that stabbings don't happen because of handjobs and kids smoking pot.

[fezzyfestoon]

Uh, same time period Minneapolis was known as "Murderapolis" as said above, not really an issue now. My city is smart enough to know that stabbings don't happen because of handjobs and kids smoking pot.

Yeah, and you know what they did?  Went to New York to study Rudy's way of doing things and implemented it there.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Then why is the arrest rate for marijuana insanely low and all clubs in the downtown area left alone? (Not that people don't get arrested there, but it's always people outside the clubs who are drunk and acting like jackasses. Clubs don't get raided or shut down.)

[Mechaman]

It was a lot better before those damn Italians and Irish came and ruined it.

Sorry about that!

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

and your definition of freedom is having the freedom to be robbed or shot anywhere you go?

No, I don't believe I said that, did I?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

My neighborhood is full of "happy ending" massage parlors and pot dealers, and it's quite safe. The more dangerous neighborhood to the east has little of those actually.

One size does not fit all. Just because your neighborhood is full of things like that doesn't necessarily mean it will work in every other large city. In fact, we know it will not work in NYC because of its past history. Minneapolis has not been the hotbed for crime and gangs like New York, nor does it have the same demographics or history. New York is a place that needs a larger police force to keep the peace, or things deteriorate. It has already been proven. 

Uh, same time period Minneapolis was known as "Murderapolis" as said above, not really an issue now. My city is smart enough to know that stabbings don't happen because of handjobs and kids smoking pot.

North Charleston is pretty dangeous too, but I wouldn't dare compare it to NYC during its prime. It's all about prospective. It's not like you can't go to strip clubs or smoke pot in NYC. You just can't do it in plain few out in the middle of the street. You are refusing to see the whole picture, but I am going to continue this argument because I'm at work and have nothing better to do besides this or reading through case files.

[fezzyfestoon]

Then why is the arrest rate for marijuana insanely low and all clubs in the downtown area left alone? (Not that people don't get arrested there, but it's always people outside the clubs who are drunk and acting like jackasses. Clubs don't get raided or shut down.)

Because gang crime is back on the rise in your lovely city as they're experiencing a crime wave in the last decade.  Maybe you should look into the differences in police activity in the two cities and see why.  It's plain as day to anyone over the age of 15.

Care to respond to anything else?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Unfortunately, allowing prostitution to run amuck around NYC doesn't create an enviroment that fosters a clean and safe city. Once again, you're fighting a losing argument. It would be hard for me to go to NY and find people that would prefer to go back to the days when 2000 murders a year was the norm in NYC. Maybe you can't f**k a girl in the back ally and pay her for her services, but there are tradeoffs to make life a more pleasant every day experience.

My neighborhood is full of "happy ending" massage parlors and pot dealers, and it's quite safe. The more dangerous neighborhood to the east has little of those actually.

One size does not fit all. Just because your neighborhood is full of things like that doesn't necessarily mean it will work in every other large city. In fact, we know it will not work in NYC because of its past history. Minneapolis has not been the hotbed for crime and gangs like New York, nor does it have the same demographics or history. New York is a place that needs a larger police force to keep the peace, or things deteriorate. It has already been proven. 

Uh, same time period Minneapolis was known as "Murderapolis" as said above, not really an issue now. My city is smart enough to know that stabbings don't happen because of handjobs and kids smoking pot.

Minneapolis has less than 1/20 of the population and 1/4 of the density of NYC. Do you have an example of a city that is actually comparable?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Then why is the arrest rate for marijuana insanely low and all clubs in the downtown area left alone? (Not that people don't get arrested there, but it's always people outside the clubs who are drunk and acting like jackasses. Clubs don't get raided or shut down.)

Clubs don't get randomly raided or shut down in NYC either without just cause.

As I said before, NYC =/ Minneapolis. Each city has different demographics, trends, lifestyles and histories. There was a time when ALL cities were dangerous during the 1970s and 1980s, but Minneapolis does not have the ethnic clashes, gangs, and other unsavory events we associate with NYC. We SAW what NYC was like with a lesser police force. We SAW what NYC was like when people had freedom to do what they want. It wasn't a pleasant place to go visit, and you had to walk down the street with your wallet chained to your body or you'd lose it. Nobody wants to live in the place like that. I doubt even you would like it!

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Why would it be any different from what I think of NYC otherwise?

[fezzyfestoon]

Why would it be any different from what I think of NYC otherwise?

Well, many people like to judge people, places, and things based on rational reasons.  Like not voting patterns.

[Mint]

Mayor Giuliani = massive FF

lol

Rudy didn't know the meaning of the word 'freedom'.

Freedom is about authority, remember?

[Boris]

I approve: