Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 19, 2014, 07:44:19 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Questions and Answers
| |-+  Presidential Election Process
| | |-+  Electoral Reform
| | | |-+  National Popular Vote Interstate Compact
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Poll
Question: Could it actually succeed ?
Yes
No
Show Pie Chart

Author Topic: National Popular Vote Interstate Compact  (Read 8060 times)
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28724
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« on: June 09, 2010, 03:57:49 pm »
Ignore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact

While wandering around Wikipedia, I found this pretty interesting initiative, or "how to get rid of the Electoral college without amending the constitution". Here I don't wont to start another Electoral College vs Popular Vote debate, we already have enough.
What I find interesting is having you opinion about whether or not it could realistically reach the 270 EVs necessary to become effective. Personally, I feel quite optimistical about that : More than 60% of citizens support it, five States have already passed it and 7 others could follow. The 270 EVs target isn't impossible to reach, and the procedure is far more simple than a Constitutional amendment : though a simple State bill.

What do you think ?
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38375
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 04:19:14 pm »
Ignore

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=36980.0
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
RIP Robert H Bork
officepark
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9471
Czech Republic


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 09:13:04 pm »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.
Logged

Clearly the solution is to privatize presidential elections.

So, in less than four years, get excited for the 2016 MetLife Financial U Pick The Prez Extravaganza. If you tweet a picture of your completed ballot with the hashtag #ivoted, you could win a trip for two to the inauguration or an iTunes gift card.
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28724
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 12:40:07 pm »
Ignore


Well, but that one has no poll. Tongue


It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

This would make no sense. States are sovereign to choose the way they elect their Electors, passsing a bill against that would mean ruining the ewhole meaning of the Electoral college (thus making it even more silly than it already is).
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 02:32:27 pm »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.

How exactly would a piece of legislation override the Constitution?



I tend to support this, btw. Even if it'd make presidential elections less interesting.
Logged
zorkpolitics
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1032
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2010, 10:02:14 pm »
Ignore

Given that the Constitution says:
"No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

How can this compact be enforceable without Congressional consent?  It effectively takes away the electoral votes of states not part of the compact
Logged

"Scientists are treacherous allies on committees, for they are apt to change their minds in response to arguments" C.M. Bowra

The only way to reverse the failed polices of the past is OMG: Obama Must Go!
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 08:35:52 am »
Ignore

It effectively takes away the electoral votes of states not part of the compact

Not at all. They still retain all the electoral votes they previously had.
Logged
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8103
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2010, 01:12:08 pm »
Ignore

Isn't that sort of what the current system is?  Each state's electoral votes going to the one with a plurality of the popular vote?
Logged

Free Bradley Manning
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2010, 04:33:22 pm »
Ignore

Isn't that sort of what the current system is?  Each state's electoral votes going to the one with a plurality of the popular vote?

Read about it again....
Logged
Citizen (The) Doctor
ArchangelZero
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1983
United States


Political Matrix
E: -3.23, S: -4.52


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 08:48:13 pm »
Ignore

There's a lot of doubt in me that this would work, but it could, given that the required number (271) be reached within the next ten years.

However, such a situation isn't really a big possibility, and I feel that these measures have only been taken due to the Gore fiasco in 2000.

In conclusion, it could work, but it's not really necessary.
Logged

"Human beings are not much. But they may still be much more."
Bo
Rochambeau
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14392
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -5.23, S: -2.52

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 04:15:49 pm »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.

This system wouldn't be activated until enough states with a combined majority of EVs ratify it. And once it gets ratified, it will essentially mean electing our President directly by PV. If this ever gets ratified and won't get overturned or ruled unconstitutional, except a formal repeal of the Electoral College to follow shortly afterwards. I don't see what's so scary about it, unless one of course supports the EC.
Logged

muon2
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8097


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2010, 10:45:06 pm »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.

This system wouldn't be activated until enough states with a combined majority of EVs ratify it. And once it gets ratified, it will essentially mean electing our President directly by PV. If this ever gets ratified and won't get overturned or ruled unconstitutional, except a formal repeal of the Electoral College to follow shortly afterwards. I don't see what's so scary about it, unless one of course supports the EC.

What bothers me is a popular vote without a runoff if no candidate reaches a majority. Non-parliamentary leadership posts, such as the President of France, face such a runoff. The EC provides for a runoff in the House. Even the constitutional amendment proposal of 1970 (Bayh-Cellar) to provide for direct election had a runoff provision is no candidate received 40%.
Logged


Lunar Eclipse of April 15, 2014 with the star Spica.
Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38375
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2010, 01:13:23 am »
Ignore

I'm not sure that a runoff of the type that Bayh and Cellar proposed is better than no runoff at all.
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28724
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 03:18:39 am »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.

This system wouldn't be activated until enough states with a combined majority of EVs ratify it. And once it gets ratified, it will essentially mean electing our President directly by PV. If this ever gets ratified and won't get overturned or ruled unconstitutional, except a formal repeal of the Electoral College to follow shortly afterwards. I don't see what's so scary about it, unless one of course supports the EC.

What bothers me is a popular vote without a runoff if no candidate reaches a majority. Non-parliamentary leadership posts, such as the President of France, face such a runoff. The EC provides for a runoff in the House. Even the constitutional amendment proposal of 1970 (Bayh-Cellar) to provide for direct election had a runoff provision is no candidate received 40%.

Anyways, no winning candidate has received less than 40% of PV since 1828.
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
hantheguitarman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2253


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 05:19:37 pm »
Ignore

It scares the hell out of me. Ideally, Congress would pass a law preventing this system.

If the electoral college must go, it would be better if we just abolished it. I won't support anything like this, however.

This system wouldn't be activated until enough states with a combined majority of EVs ratify it. And once it gets ratified, it will essentially mean electing our President directly by PV. If this ever gets ratified and won't get overturned or ruled unconstitutional, except a formal repeal of the Electoral College to follow shortly afterwards. I don't see what's so scary about it, unless one of course supports the EC.

What bothers me is a popular vote without a runoff if no candidate reaches a majority. Non-parliamentary leadership posts, such as the President of France, face such a runoff. The EC provides for a runoff in the House. Even the constitutional amendment proposal of 1970 (Bayh-Cellar) to provide for direct election had a runoff provision is no candidate received 40%.

Anyways, no winning candidate has received less than 40% of PV since 1828.

Lincoln received 39.7% of the PV in 1860, and in 1828, Jackson won with 55.9%, not less than 40%.
Logged

Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
hantheguitarman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2253


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2010, 06:12:19 pm »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.
Logged

Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2010, 06:40:34 pm »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

Incorrect, it changes absolutely nothing. Every state still retains their electoral votes and they are all able to distribute them as they see fit.
Logged
IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22338
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2010, 09:03:45 pm »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

Incorrect, it changes absolutely nothing. Every state still retains their electoral votes and they are all able to distribute them as they see fit.

     While they do get to distribute them as they see fit, it seems rather disingenuous to me to say that it changes absolutely nothing. As Rochambeau pointed out, this would be essentially the same thing as replacing the electoral college with a nationwide popular vote; in other words, how the other states distribute their electoral votes would be rendered trivial. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference most of the time, but it would make a difference in elections like 2000.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:05:50 pm by SE Legislator PiT »Logged

Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 03:11:33 am »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

Incorrect, it changes absolutely nothing. Every state still retains their electoral votes and they are all able to distribute them as they see fit.

     While they do get to distribute them as they see fit, it seems rather disingenuous to me to say that it changes absolutely nothing. As Rochambeau pointed out, this would be essentially the same thing as replacing the electoral college with a nationwide popular vote; in other words, how the other states distribute their electoral votes would be rendered trivial. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference most of the time, but it would make a difference in elections like 2000.

Still, the system remains identical. Each state will have a method for determining electors (in this case a majority going to the natinoal popular vote). That doesn't make any state any more irrelevant that it already was.
Logged
IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22338
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2010, 02:40:14 am »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

Incorrect, it changes absolutely nothing. Every state still retains their electoral votes and they are all able to distribute them as they see fit.

     While they do get to distribute them as they see fit, it seems rather disingenuous to me to say that it changes absolutely nothing. As Rochambeau pointed out, this would be essentially the same thing as replacing the electoral college with a nationwide popular vote; in other words, how the other states distribute their electoral votes would be rendered trivial. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference most of the time, but it would make a difference in elections like 2000.

Still, the system remains identical. Each state will have a method for determining electors (in this case a majority going to the natinoal popular vote). That doesn't make any state any more irrelevant that it already was.

     In theory the system remains identical. In practice it is being traded out for a nationwide popular vote, because the same system will now produce a result according to that criterion. It is like taking a soda machine outside of a gas station, stocking it with candy instead, & then insisting that the machine is identical & therefore nothing is changed.

     My point is that it may be the case that it in fact does not make any state any more or less relevant (though that seems highly doubtful). Any idea of the system remaining unchanged is a red herring, though.
Logged

RIP Robert H Bork
officepark
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9471
Czech Republic


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2010, 08:24:42 pm »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

^^^^
Logged

Clearly the solution is to privatize presidential elections.

So, in less than four years, get excited for the 2016 MetLife Financial U Pick The Prez Extravaganza. If you tweet a picture of your completed ballot with the hashtag #ivoted, you could win a trip for two to the inauguration or an iTunes gift card.
Senator Barnes
Roy Barnes 2010
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4509
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2010, 11:27:52 pm »
Ignore

This is quite a convoluted solution to fixing quite a retarded problem. Tongue
Logged

-Atlasia and all that jazz-
Senator for Atlasia At-Large
General-Secretary of the Labor Party

Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28724
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2010, 03:13:34 am »
Ignore

This is quite a convoluted solution to fixing quite a retarded problem. Tongue

You summed it up very well. Wink
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21409
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2010, 05:40:17 am »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.

^^^^

Not any less relevant than states now that vote for the loser.

Actually, under this system, even a vote in Utah matters.
Logged
Sasquatch
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 795
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2010, 03:55:06 pm »
Ignore

Anyway, I think this system is wrong, because if it gets passed (which I doubt it will), the states that haven't signed the compact are going to be totally irrelevant to the election.
Aren't 35 of the states already irrelevant to the election already?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines