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Author Topic: Do you feel like we're getting collectively dumber as a population, or smarter?  (Read 3476 times)
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HoffmanJohn
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« on: June 14, 2010, 08:45:46 am »
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I think we are getting smarter relative to the 1980's.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 12:28:04 pm »
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Yes our teacher's unions and college professors have used their left wing ideology to dumb down our youth in the so called institutions of higher learning. This is intentional in order to keep the democratic party strong. If people are educated, then they will have jobs, serve in the military, think outside the democratic party, and know the world for what it really is. By holding our students captive, the youth have really been dumbed down into voting democrat.  I hope you're happy with your government education. After all the public schools were set up IN THE NAME OF fairness. If you thought education was expensive before public schools, are you happy with the amount of your tax dollars going towards it now? What were you paying before compared to now? Are we getting our money's worth?
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2010, 12:30:04 pm »
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Yes our teacher's unions and college professors have used their left wing ideology to dumb down our youth in the so called institutions of higher learning. This is intentional in order to keep the democratic party strong. If people are educated, then they will have jobs, serve in the military, think outside the democratic party, and know the world for what it really is. By holding our students captive, the youth have really been dumbed down into voting democrat.  I hope you're happy with your government education. After all the public schools were set up IN THE NAME OF fairness. If you thought education was expensive before public schools, are you happy with the amount of your tax dollars going towards it now? What were you paying before compared to now? Are we getting our money's worth?

The question goes beyond education.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 12:34:42 pm »
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Yes our teacher's unions and college professors have used their left wing ideology to dumb down our youth in the so called institutions of higher learning. This is intentional in order to keep the democratic party strong. If people are educated, then they will have jobs, serve in the military, think outside the democratic party, and know the world for what it really is. By holding our students captive, the youth have really been dumbed down into voting democrat.  I hope you're happy with your government education. After all the public schools were set up IN THE NAME OF fairness. If you thought education was expensive before public schools, are you happy with the amount of your tax dollars going towards it now? What were you paying before compared to now? Are we getting our money's worth?

The question goes beyond education.

Very much so. The media for example. Look at how they reported Waco and Oklahoma City compared to what really happened. They couldn't admit that Bush won the election either time. They only tell you the Democrat news unless you watch Fox. It's in the government too. What's one honest sector of our government besides the military and defense department?
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 04:36:54 pm »
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Yes our teacher's unions and college professors have used their left wing ideology to dumb down our youth in the so called institutions of higher learning. This is intentional in order to keep the democratic party strong. If people are educated, then they will have jobs, serve in the military, think outside the democratic party, and know the world for what it really is. By holding our students captive, the youth have really been dumbed down into voting democrat.  I hope you're happy with your government education. After all the public schools were set up IN THE NAME OF fairness. If you thought education was expensive before public schools, are you happy with the amount of your tax dollars going towards it now? What were you paying before compared to now? Are we getting our money's worth?

The question goes beyond education.

Very much so. The media for example. Look at how they reported Waco and Oklahoma City compared to what really happened. They couldn't admit that Bush won the election either time. They only tell you the Democrat news unless you watch Fox. It's in the government too. What's one honest sector of our government besides the military and defense department?

how often to people take the media word for word? The media isn't something that is all powerful.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 04:53:00 pm »
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Dumber.
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2010, 04:54:16 pm »
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I think we've gotten collectively stupider in a lot of ways since the '70s for multiple reasons (diet, media, education system, etc.) but it's starting to improve. Right now is sort of the nadir though.
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2010, 05:15:44 pm »
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I feel like we have been getting collectively smarter since the end of the 1970's.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2010, 05:38:22 pm »
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Scarier.

Though to be fair seems both an interesting living liberalism and stupid conservatism/religious 'craziness' grew during the past decades. Look you switched from G.W. Bush to Obama, only for a big symbol, and now you have tea partiers growing, you're really both, but when I come to think to the short term outcome I'd be pessimist, then 'Scarier', on the longer term you might become more reasonable...

Well, for what this exterior point of view is worth.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 05:40:57 pm by Bunoah »Logged

14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 05:39:49 pm »
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Both. We are getting smarter and dumber in differemt ways.
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(I realize I'm probably just further encouraging him by saying that, and for this I apologize.)
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2010, 05:43:47 pm »
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Scarier.

Though to be fair seems both an interesting living liberalism and stupid conservatism/religious 'craziness' grew during the past decades. Look you switched from G.W. Bush to Obama, only for a big symbol, and now you have tea partiers growing, you're really both, but when I come to think to the short term outcome I'd be pessimist, then 'Scarier', on the longer term you might become more reasonable...

Well, for what this exterior point of view is worth.

dude right wingers back in the day had their birch society, and thought segegration was a good idea. Even the biggest conservative intellectuals supported segegration, but this isn't mentioned that often because conservatives don't want people to know that their movement has always had tons of dumbsh*t ideas.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2010, 06:12:16 pm »
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Scarier.

Though to be fair seems both an interesting living liberalism and stupid conservatism/religious 'craziness' grew during the past decades. Look you switched from G.W. Bush to Obama, only for a big symbol, and now you have tea partiers growing, you're really both, but when I come to think to the short term outcome I'd be pessimist, then 'Scarier', on the longer term you might become more reasonable...

Well, for what this exterior point of view is worth.

dude right wingers back in the day had their birch society, and thought segegration was a good idea. Even the biggest conservative intellectuals supported segegration, but this isn't mentioned that often because conservatives don't want people to know that their movement has always had tons of dumbsh*t ideas.

But the point being that the bloody conservative ideas step by step lost some ground in your country all along of its history. And for a while, while an interesting liberalism seems to grow too, they are gaining some back more and more, and since I'm pessimist for the short term I'd say you currently are in a negative trend. Which might also apply to Europe to some extents but on a lesser scale I'd say.

Oh and, that is if we're assuming intelligence and morals go along. In term of 'pure smartness', well maybe the lesser importance given to reflexion/knowledge, but more to pure reaction/feeling, didn't help to develop 'smartness' within the population (the huge place that all kinds of marketing techniques took in the society could be for something), but once again it would be more or less the same for Europe, at least. About it I don't know too, I'm mixed because knowledge has been more accessible than before and because the place that psychology took in the society gave interesting things I think, I like to think that it seems more dumb in appearance, which could lead people to stupid political ways in the short term, but that there is something less dumb behind it which could be interesting and that would show itself more after people would have chosen a screwed way.

Something like that.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 06:18:15 pm by Bunoah »Logged

14/01/2011: Tunisia
11/02/2011: Egypt
20/10/2011: Libya
??/??/2013: Syria??

Money became totally unfair.
Money became totally senseless.
Let's make Money totally useless...

??/??/20??: EU UU!
Derek
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2010, 06:49:53 pm »
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Yes our teacher's unions and college professors have used their left wing ideology to dumb down our youth in the so called institutions of higher learning. This is intentional in order to keep the democratic party strong. If people are educated, then they will have jobs, serve in the military, think outside the democratic party, and know the world for what it really is. By holding our students captive, the youth have really been dumbed down into voting democrat.  I hope you're happy with your government education. After all the public schools were set up IN THE NAME OF fairness. If you thought education was expensive before public schools, are you happy with the amount of your tax dollars going towards it now? What were you paying before compared to now? Are we getting our money's worth?

The question goes beyond education.

Very much so. The media for example. Look at how they reported Waco and Oklahoma City compared to what really happened. They couldn't admit that Bush won the election either time. They only tell you the Democrat news unless you watch Fox. It's in the government too. What's one honest sector of our government besides the military and defense department?

how often to people take the media word for word? The media isn't something that is all powerful.

Most Obama voters did. Otherwise there's no way a guy with that type of ideology could've been elected president. Remember the media is run by some of the wealthiest people this world has to offer. What they want goes on TV.
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2010, 10:18:13 pm »
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How about NOTA.
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 02:16:39 am »
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Neither.  We're just able to see both extremes more easily now, due to how interconnected we are.
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2010, 02:24:55 am »
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Neither.  We're just able to see both extremes more easily now, due to how interconnected we are.

I think all the information and ideology is great. I curse the Obama czar who said that there is too much information available to the people and I say we deport him. Even if I make a career out of bashing the other side, it's still healthy for debate.
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2010, 03:13:14 am »
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Neither.  We're just able to see both extremes more easily now, due to how interconnected we are.

I think all the information and ideology is great. I curse the Obama czar who said that there is too much information available to the people and I say we deport him. Even if I make a career out of bashing the other side, it's still healthy for debate.

I was thinking more in terms of intelligence than ideology.  Now that everyone is online and thinks his opinions are important, the answer to The Hoff's question will be tainted by the sites one visits and the people he interacts with therein.  I do agree, though, with your first and third sentences.

FWIW, czars generally don't affect policy in any appreciable way.
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2010, 12:55:21 pm »
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Neither.  We're just able to see both extremes more easily now, due to how interconnected we are.

I think all the information and ideology is great. I curse the Obama czar who said that there is too much information available to the people and I say we deport him. Even if I make a career out of bashing the other side, it's still healthy for debate.

I was thinking more in terms of intelligence than ideology.  Now that everyone is online and thinks his opinions are important, the answer to The Hoff's question will be tainted by the sites one visits and the people he interacts with therein.  I do agree, though, with your first and third sentences.

FWIW, czars generally don't affect policy in any appreciable way.

I think the internet may create a strong inclination for individuals with vested interests to confirm their own bias.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2010, 01:02:24 pm »
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A little smarter, on average. But stupidity is becoming more prevalent in the media.
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2010, 01:35:41 pm »
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Keeping people in ignorance is an important part of the system, HJ.  Has the system changed?
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HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2010, 02:09:21 pm »
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Keeping people in ignorance is an important part of the system, HJ.  Has the system changed?


The system has changed somewhat. For example before cell phone cameras,you tube, and all of those gadgets it was a lot harder to expose a right-winger for their racism or outrageous comments. I know this because back in the day a politician of corporate executive could easily get away with saying something in public without having to worry about someone recording their conversation.
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2010, 03:12:34 pm »
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If you want to go by IQ tests, the answer is undeniably smarter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Our skill sets are obviously changing though, and not always for the best. Our grandparents knew a lot more about about basic skills like cooking or construction. We're all so damned specialized today.
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2010, 03:59:43 pm »
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If you want to go by IQ tests, the answer is undeniably smarter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Our skill sets are obviously changing though, and not always for the best. Our grandparents knew a lot more about about basic skills like cooking or construction. We're all so damned specialized today.

We are getting dumber and the direction of the democrat party proves my claim.
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2010, 09:51:17 pm »
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If this forum is any indication of the general population (which it's not), it's gotten dumber.
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2010, 09:42:06 am »
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If you want to go by IQ tests, the answer is undeniably smarter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Our skill sets are obviously changing though, and not always for the best. Our grandparents knew a lot more about about basic skills like cooking or construction. We're all so damned specialized today.

what makes you so sure that IQ is a good indicator?
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metaphysical principles relied on deductive logic, just like isolationism,non-intervention, and the common good do today. More importantly however is that various individuals make the mistake of using them for a golden axiom, despite the fact they have no inherent quality.-John Hoffman

people who claim to be critical thinkers without imposing a simple form of inquiry tend to be pseudoskeptics.-John hoffman

to kill an argument...focus on its structure, and assumptions.- john Hoffman.
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