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Author Topic: AP Poll: Plurality now supports Obamacare  (Read 2417 times)
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« on: June 18, 2010, 10:36:36 pm »
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The response to the question

"In general, do you support, oppose or neither support nor oppose the health care reforms that were passed by Congress in March?"
3/10 & earlier: "In general, do you support, oppose or neither support nor oppose the health care reform plans being discussed in Congress?"

is now at a record high (45%) going all the way back to September 2009.

6/9-14/10
45    42    13    1    
5/7-11/10
39    46    14    1    
4/7-12/10
39    50    10    1    
3/3-8/10
41    43    12    4    
1/12-17/10
42    42    14    2    
12/10-14/09
36    44    18    2    
11/5-9/09
39    45    14    3    
10/1-5/09
40    40    17    3    
9/3-8/09
34    49    15    2
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2010, 10:38:20 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 10:40:12 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Or perhaps some are realizing it's not the end of the world as was implied by the heavily critical media coverage. For most people, the effect is they now have some more protections from their insurance companies and a little more security in case of job loss.
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 10:41:34 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Or perhaps some are realizing it's not the end of the world as was implied by the heavily critical media coverage.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't take effect until like, 2014.
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2010, 10:42:25 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Or perhaps some are realizing it's not the end of the world as was implied by the heavily critical media coverage.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't take effect until like, 2014.

There are parts taking effect this year. I'm sure anyone with kids under 25 is in favor now.
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 10:43:44 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Or perhaps some are realizing it's not the end of the world as was implied by the heavily critical media coverage.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't take effect until like, 2014.

There's alot of stuff that takes effect this year. 2014 is just the bulk of the program, such as subsidies and the like.
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 10:44:48 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Or perhaps some are realizing it's not the end of the world as was implied by the heavily critical media coverage.

Ignoring the fact that it doesn't take effect until like, 2014.

There are parts taking effect this year. I'm sure anyone with kids under 25 is in favor now.

There's alot of stuff that takes effect this year. 2014 is just the bulk of the program, such as subsidies and the like.

The tyrannical forcing of Americans to buy health insurance not being one of them.
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 10:47:32 pm »
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Most Americans already buy health insurance, so it just means they get subsidized. Still a win.

Morgan: you do realize that I am currently someone who does not buy health insurance by complete choice, and yet I still support the law regardless?
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 10:49:44 pm »
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Most Americans already buy health insurance, so it just means they get subsidized. Still a win.

Except they are doing so by their own choice, not by government coercion.
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 10:54:36 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Indeed...Only 45% support it?  That's ridiculously low.  The American people are indeed very stupid for opposing this reform.
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 10:56:18 pm »
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Ah, the collective stupidity of the American people.

Indeed...Only 45% support it?  That's ridiculously low.  The American people are indeed very stupid for opposing this reform.

Only forty-five percent support tyranny?  Terrible.
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 10:58:19 pm »
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That is what tyranny looks like?  I thought it involved something more than ridiculously low fees for not purchasing something to join an insurance pool with explicit requirements that failure to pay such fees won't result in jailtime.  

Don't you think you might be, um, exaggerating tyranny a tad?  Like if that's tyranny, what's North Korea?
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 10:59:54 pm »
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That is what tyranny looks like?  I thought it involved something more than ridiculously low fees for not purchasing something to join an insurance pool with explicit requirements that failure to pay such fees won't result in jailtime. 

They won't result in jail-time? So what happens if someone just flat-out refuses to comply? They will shoot him/her?
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 11:00:18 pm »
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Most Americans already buy health insurance, so it just means they get subsidized. Still a win.

Except they are doing so by their own choice, not by government coercion.

But they get subsidized for just doing something they're doing anyway. Where's the loss? Let's say the government passed a law requiring everyone to spend $x at a strip club every year but they would send you a check for that amount of money. Do you think I would be bothered by this law?

And once again, I am one person who is voluntarily not buying health insurance yet am now being "coerced" to do so. And I support the law. What does that say?
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 11:00:26 pm »
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That is what tyranny looks like?  I thought it involved something more than ridiculously low fees for not purchasing something to join an insurance pool with explicit requirements that failure to pay such fees won't result in jailtime. 

Being fined for not buying health insurance sure sounds like tyranny to me.

Also, I heard that the provisions regarding abortion would make it almost impossible to get one.  Can't remember where I read that, however.
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2010, 11:01:58 pm »
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Most Americans already buy health insurance, so it just means they get subsidized. Still a win.

Except they are doing so by their own choice, not by government coercion.

But they get subsidized for just doing something they're doing anyway. Where's the loss? Let's say the government passed a law requiring everyone to spend $x at a strip club every year but they would send you a check for that amount of money. Do you think I would be bothered by this law?

You wouldn't, but an asexual prude like me certainly would.

Quote
And once again, I am one person who is voluntarily not buying health insurance yet am now being "coerced" to do so. And I support the law. What does that say?

On the flip-side, there are a lot of people who do voluntarily buy health insurance, who oppose this bill.
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2010, 11:04:13 pm »
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That is what tyranny looks like?  I thought it involved something more than ridiculously low fees for not purchasing something to join an insurance pool with explicit requirements that failure to pay such fees won't result in jailtime.  

Being fined for not buying health insurance sure sounds like tyranny to me.

Also, I heard that the provisions regarding abortion would make it almost impossible to get one.  Can't remember where I read that, however.

Um, that's not the case.  It's just harder for insurers who wish to receive government subsidies for any of their plans (participating in "exchanges") to also provide abortions for any of their plans.


So... the definition of tyranny is any sort of mandatory "fee" in society?  Lol.  What happened to perspective?  Soviet Russia?  North Korea?
  

You people are hilar.  Perspective, perspective, perspective.
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2010, 11:04:42 pm »
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Most Americans already buy health insurance, so it just means they get subsidized. Still a win.

Except they are doing so by their own choice, not by government coercion.

But they get subsidized for just doing something they're doing anyway. Where's the loss? Let's say the government passed a law requiring everyone to spend $x at a strip club every year but they would send you a check for that amount of money. Do you think I would be bothered by this law?

You wouldn't, but an asexual prude like me certainly would.

That's not the point. The question is why would I care about the government giving me money to do something I already do?

Quote
And once again, I am one person who is voluntarily not buying health insurance yet am now being "coerced" to do so. And I support the law. What does that say?

On the flip-side, there are a lot of people who do voluntarily buy health insurance, who oppose this bill.

Which is idiotic, since all that bill means for them is that they get subsidized to buy it now. It's basically free money for them.
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2010, 11:08:42 pm »
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That's not the point. The question is why would I care about the government giving me money to do something I already do?

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Which is idiotic, since all that bill means for them is that they get subsidized to buy it now. It's basically free money for them.

Maybe some people believe in liberty.

Um, that's not the case.  It's just harder for insurers who wish to receive government subsidies for any of their plans (participating in "exchanges") to also provide abortions for any of their plans.

I'm sure that most people don't think about which insurer will provide an abortion if one is needed.  That provision will certainly make a lot of people's lives suck.


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So... the definition of tyranny is any sort of mandatory "fee" in society?  Lol.  What happened to perspective?  Soviet Russia?  North Korea?

Doesn't make it any less tyrannical.
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2010, 11:09:45 pm »
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Huh?  So, the only options are maximum tyranny or no tyranny?  Some random fee imposed on society is TYRANNY... but what words are left to describe societies like Soviet Russia?
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2010, 11:10:05 pm »
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How is free money incompatible with liberty?
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2010, 11:12:47 pm »
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How is free money incompatible with liberty?

That's not the issue.  It's people being forced to buy health insurance.  Forced.

Huh?  So, the only options are maximum tyranny or no tyranny?

The fact that there have been much more tyrannical regimes in the past does not make government coercion to buy something any less of an infringement on individual liberty.
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2010, 11:13:26 pm »
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How is free money incompatible with liberty?

That's not the issue.  It's people being forced to buy health insurance.  Forced.

But who cares if you're being forced to do something you're doing anyway? I wouldn't be bothered by the government forcing people to visit strip clubs.
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2010, 11:16:10 pm »
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\
Huh?  So, the only options are maximum tyranny or no tyranny?

The fact that there have been much more tyrannical regimes in the past does not make government coercion to buy something any less of an infringement on individual liberty.

YES IT DOES.  PERSPECTIVE.

If I steal a penny from you, it's a not a great injustice.  It's "theft" in only the most minor of sense, not even notable to proclaim about.  

PERSPECTIVE is important, as is VOCABULARY which can determine the extreme of an action.  By using the most extreme of words possible, you diminish legitimate suffering and actual tyranny in the name of being absorbed in your own isolated, safe world. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2010, 11:20:58 pm »
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\
Huh?  So, the only options are maximum tyranny or no tyranny?

The fact that there have been much more tyrannical regimes in the past does not make government coercion to buy something any less of an infringement on individual liberty.

YES IT DOES.  PERSPECTIVE.

If I steal a penny from you, it's a not a great injustice.  It's "theft" in only the most minor of sense, not even notable to proclaim about.  

PERSPECTIVE is important, as is VOCABULARY which can determine the extreme of an action.  By using the most extreme of words possible, you diminish legitimate suffering and actual tyranny in the name of being absorbed in your own isolated, safe world. 

OF COURSE it isn't as bad as being shot for saying Obama is a fascist, but it is still an infringement on personal liberty.

How is free money incompatible with liberty?

That's not the issue.  It's people being forced to buy health insurance.  Forced.

But who cares if you're being forced to do something you're doing anyway? I wouldn't be bothered by the government forcing people to visit strip clubs.

So it doesn't matter to you if the government is forcing people to go to strip clubs?  Don't you give a rat's ass at all about other people's freedoms?
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