Ludlow Amendment [PASS'D]
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  Ludlow Amendment [PASS'D]
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Author Topic: Ludlow Amendment [PASS'D]  (Read 4138 times)
bgwah
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« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2010, 11:53:10 PM »

aye
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Hans-im-Glück
Franken
Junior Chimp
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E: -5.94, S: -3.30

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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2010, 12:20:50 PM »

AYE
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2010, 06:50:26 PM »

Abstain
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Bacon King
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« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2010, 10:55:12 AM »

I'll go ahead and close this out, since it can be done so:

Senators in favor of passage: Libertas, Bullmoose, Dallasfan, Badger, Bacon King, Bgwah, Hans-im-Glück (7)
Senators opposed: Franzl (1)
Senators abstaining: NCYankee, AHDuke (2)

This Constitutional Amendment has enough votes to pass. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.
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Franzl
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« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2010, 11:53:53 AM »

Anybody that voted in favor, I beg you to consider the practical implications of your vote. It's not always true that public opinion is against war...and considering the history of ballot questions and various referenda.....do you really want going to war to be subject to a popular vote?
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2010, 12:50:31 PM »

Anybody that voted in favor, I beg you to consider the practical implications of your vote. It's not always true that public opinion is against war...and considering the history of ballot questions and various referenda.....do you really want going to war to be subject to a popular vote?

I have well considered the matter, Franzl. First off, in a small active community like Atlasia such matters can be expeditiously addressed. Not to mention, as Grumpy Gramps and I were agreeing over a beer last Saturday (thanks again, bud. My round next time. Smiley), the collection of minds on this forum with a few exceptions (like GG and me Tongue) are about the brightest sumbitches you'll find anywhere. Heck, a huge potion of Atlasia are already former and current office holders of various levels.

Secondly, the "decision to go to war" is not truly subject to popular vote here. Such a resolution must first pass the Senate. I would be much more concerned about a measure allowing military action to be placed on the ballot by citizen initiative despite being voted down in the Senate. The heat of the moment forces of jingoism and nationalism could lead to disaster were that the case. If the Senate authorizes military force but the voters at large refuse to support the war, maybe there's a good reason not to proceed militarily.

I understand your argument. First off, while I understand some of the benefits of representative democracy vs. direct, I'm very much a fan of the latter whenever possible. I believe in the power of a strong judiciary from letting the fundamental rights of others be entirely governed by the rule of 51% of voters. ("No, city or state of 'x', you can't order all non-Christian houses of worship within town limits be closed just because 53% of voters approved doing so in a referendum.") My biggest concerns about doing something like this in real life would be the logistical complications of holding a national election within less than two months notice. Yes, European countries do so all the time, but the election machinery tends to be far less localized than here, IIRC.

At any rate, I'll trust the voters of Atlasia to support military action if a compelling basis is provided them.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
Libertas
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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2010, 08:01:58 PM »

Can this go to the regions yet?
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Bacon King
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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2010, 08:03:28 PM »

Yes, the vote is final as stated above.
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