Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq
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  Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq
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Author Topic: Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq  (Read 18897 times)
Huckleberry Finn
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« on: March 15, 2004, 07:32:06 AM »

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Pulling a major ally from the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, Spain's prime minister-elect will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq in the coming months, a Socialist Party spokesman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/15/spain.election/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3512144.stm

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!! How they can do this? Those idiots! Those Commies!

Osama bin Laden: "It worked in Spain. Let's try in Italy, Hungary, Poland, Denmark....Yeeeaaaarrg!"

If Kerry will show any signs of this kind of politics, I change my avatar to Republican one!
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agcatter
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2004, 07:34:16 AM »

Don't forget Australia.
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dunn
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2004, 07:45:43 AM »

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Pulling a major ally from the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, Spain's prime minister-elect will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq in the coming months, a Socialist Party spokesman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/15/spain.election/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3512144.stm

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!! How they can do this? Those idiots! Those Commies!

Osama bin Laden: "It worked in Spain. Let's try in Italy, Hungary, Poland, Denmark....Yeeeaaaarrg!"

If Kerry will show any signs of this kind of politics, I change my avatar to Republican one!

they are naive not idiots
it'll take another few thousends deads in Paris/Berlin/amsterdam/Bruselles streets when they will. maybe
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2004, 08:08:04 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2004, 09:28:27 AM by Huckleberry Finn »

Spanish Left is also selfish. They think that there is no longer terror menace against their own country. They care  nothing about others.
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Ben.
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2004, 08:39:05 AM »

    You sure this is true? this is ridiculess...and don’t fear Kerry would never be stupid enough to say anything like this, its purely Kucinich/ Nader territory...Kerry recognises that America has a duty to the Iraqi people to help them build a stable and democratic Iraq even those like me who opposed the war recognise this and so should the Spanish the Brits would never even dream of doing this....Spanish can't trust the bastards one little bit at least we still have the Brits and the Ausies...  
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2004, 09:09:34 AM »

this sends the wrong message to the terrorists.  i dont understand the thinking of some europeans.  obviously, they think terrorism is just going to 'go away'.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 09:10:35 AM »

Well, the Spanish never went to Iraq to defeat Saddam. They came to late for that. They went there to prop up Bush in the American public eye, by making him look less isolated.
That is not a legitimate aim to endanger your soldiers for. (Spain has had 11 casualties so far, and it's 1300 contingent does not fulfill any function.) Of course they'll be withdrawn. What else?
They've said the details will be worked out later, but yep, they're aiming at bringing the boys home. Expect them to go only as soon as some other country's replaced them.
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Siege40
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2004, 09:19:48 AM »

I can understand the anger of people here towards the Spanish withdrawl from Iraq. I look at it like this, 500+ TROOPS have died in Iraq, but that's part of their job, this is expect. Spain has forces there, but instead of attacking the troops they attack civilians, those who are not responsible. The innocent and uninvolved. Instead of attacking the soldiers they have gone for the soldiers' grandparents, siblings, parents and children.

By asking the Spanish to keep their troops in Iraq they were asking the civilians to suffer. I'm not sure if I were the Prime Minister of Spain I could ask the people to do that, I can understand their position.

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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2004, 09:49:50 AM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:27:28 PM by Peter Bell »

Spanish withdrawing will encourage new attacks in other countries. Spain shifts problem to others.

I'm glad that Finnish socialists are smarter. Yesterday their  chairman Paavo Lipponen said that membership of NATO is one alternative in security policy. (You know we are still "neutral" like Sweden)
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Siege40
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2004, 09:52:56 AM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:27:45 PM by Peter Bell »

True, but the Spanish want to put Spain first, the world second. They're trying to guarentee their own security. If I was living in Italy, Turkey, or Britain I'd be very angry with the Spanish. They've now proved that Al-Qaeda's methods work.

Siege40
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CTguy
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2004, 10:24:41 AM »

They don't think terrorism is just going to go away, but they understand that just bombing Iraq isn't going to make it go away.  Do you they feel safer now that Saddam Hussein is out of power?  Do you?  

90% of the spanish public was against the War in Iraq, this brought the topic back up and made it a referendum on Iraq.  I think Blair and his confidants must be very nervous right now.  I did a semester of college in London right after the height of opposition of the war in Iraq.  The war was very unpopular in England as well, especially among Blair's base.  He'll probably be next to go.  
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Nation
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2004, 10:58:21 AM »

Well, it was still popular among the more working-class citizens, which will still be a reliable voting block for Blair in 2005.

Should be close, but I'm expecting a Labor victory.
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CTguy
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2004, 11:06:22 AM »

Well the conservatives are so incredibly weak in England that I doubt the Labour Party would lose.  However I don't think Blair will last until the next election.  I think he will get booted out internally from his party by a vote of no-confidence now that they saw what happened in Spain.

There are a lot of other issues going on locally in England and I don't think the party wants to risk losing seats in their majority because of an unpopular Prime Minister.
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2004, 11:27:02 AM »

WOW!  I am really perplexed!

Some of the lefties on this board are starting to show some sense...and a country that was attacked (Spain) is waiving the white flag after only 200 dead?!

Confusing times.
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agcatter
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2004, 12:01:15 PM »

My guess is the terrorists hit Italy, the Brits, Australia, and then when they are feeling really good about themselves and all the people they've murdered, they'll come after us.  Thanks Spain, you just opened the door yesterday.
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angus
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2004, 01:15:24 PM »

Actually, there was some question intially about whether the hits were made by Basque separatists or by AlQaeda.  The Popular Party appeared to suffer from two separate but related fallouts from Thursday's attacks:  First was a sense that the government had withheld information.  Second, as the al Qaeda link became clearer, there was a sense of outrage that Aznar's pro-American policies had put Spain on the firing line of terrorist groups seeking reprisals. But the attacks certainly lost the Popular Party some public confidence, given that polls taken a few days earlier showed them ahead.  But Aznar had eight good years.  And I'm sure George Bush will still go on hunting expeditions with the King of Spain.  And you needn't expect a worldwide trend to the socialists.  Just a few weeks ago, Greece ousted its socialist party, in favor of a slightly more business-friendly group, for the first time since 1993.  And Blair already is on the religious left, so a shift there would be to the right.  And the Conservative party in england would likely not be hostile to a general war on terror.  And Italy?  Well, like Spain and Greece, it's a bit more third-world than its neighbors, but $ilvio Berlu$coni has friends in all the right places.

On a personal note, I rode my bicycle in as it's another warm sunny day here in New Spain.  And my Spanish colleague Edgar (from the Canary Islands) happened alongside me in his car.  He was listening to the news about Spain's elections on public radio station KQED at the time.  Said he'd gone to the consulate in SF (I guess that's where all the foreigners go to vote around here) and voted for the Popular Party.  He had been on the phone to friends in Madrid and in the Canary Islands, and became quite convinced that these attacks changed the mood.  As Edgar has told me before, when Generalisimo Franco is still fresh on the minds of voters over 30, the socialists don't look quite so bad by comparison.  I suspect the Bush people will dispatch Powell soon enough to try to build some bridges with Zapatero.  Don't you?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2004, 03:44:44 PM »

All you angry Americans are missing the fact that though the war on terrorism is an obvious national interest to the US, is isn't really to Spain. It's just an issue of a moral stand there, and I am not surprised to see them backing out of it. I agree though that it's sends a very bad and stupid message to terrorists.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2004, 03:53:09 PM »

If it was Al-Qaeda I don't see how they would be able to work out which way the election would go when even Zapereto (about as moderate as you get in Spain BTW. Rajoy was waaaaay to the right of Aznar) acted like he thought he would lose.

BTW very few people changed their vote as a result of the Terror attacks: a lot of people who had never voted before stuck two fingers up at the monsters that took away their friends and family by voting.
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agcatter
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2004, 03:59:22 PM »

Fine, let them suck up to the terrorists. Let's just defend America from terrorism.  To hell with Europe.  Wonder how they'll feel over there when the terrorists detanate a small nuke in Madrid or Paris.  Think that will get their attention?  I doubt it.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2004, 04:00:12 PM »

Fine, let them suck up to the terrorists. Let's just defend America from terrorism.  To hell with Europe.  Wonder how they'll feel over there when the terrorists detanate a small nuke in Madrid or Paris.  Think that will get their attention?  I doubt it.

Why would they nuke Paris?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2004, 04:01:44 PM »

Headscarf ban
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classical liberal
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2004, 04:04:39 PM »

That's a stupid reason to waste a nuke.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2004, 04:16:57 PM »

Who said that Al-Qaeda was rational?
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agcatter
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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2004, 04:18:42 PM »

Who said terrorists were smart?  The fact that they murder innocents to begin with is proof enough that they aren't exactly approaching things from a rational, reasoned point of view.
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angus
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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2004, 04:23:50 PM »

That's a stupid reason to waste a nuke.

I like my French fries with black pepper and a little mayo.
My sister eats hers with mustard and ketchup.
Becky white used to eat them dry, with a little salt.
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