Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq
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  Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq
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Author Topic: Spain PM-elect: Troops out of Iraq  (Read 18899 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2004, 04:24:00 PM »

When you think about it 9/11 was an INCREDIBLY stupid thing to do as it resulted in the loss of Al-Qaeda's Afghan stronghold.
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2004, 04:24:15 PM »

WOW!  I am really perplexed!

Some of the lefties on this board are starting to show some sense...and a country that was attacked (Spain) is waiving the white flag after only 200 dead?!

Confusing times.
I egocentrically suppose that you meant me. I can tell you that I'm not leftist. I always vote Conservatives in Finland. I support US Democrats only, because US Republicans are much further right than European Conservatives.
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angus
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« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2004, 04:25:33 PM »

Vegetarians always taste better than omnivores.  Remember that movie "Alive!"  Find out if there are any on the plane before it crashes.  
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2004, 04:36:02 PM »

All you angry Americans are missing the fact that though the war on terrorism is an obvious national interest to the US, is isn't really to Spain. It's just an issue of a moral stand there, and I am not surprised to see them backing out of it. I agree though that it's sends a very bad and stupid message to terrorists.
War on terrorism is also interest to Europe. After 9/11 most Europeans firmly supported operation in Afghanistan and most European countries also sent troops. Problem came out when Americans decided attack Iraq. Most people here can't see war on Iraq as fighting against terrorism.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2004, 04:57:01 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:28:39 PM by Peter Bell »

Well, i personally agree that it is in our long-term interest, but I don't think a lot of Europeans would agree to that. Fundamentally, the US is hated by Muslims in a way that European countries aren't.
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opebo
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« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2004, 05:40:35 PM »

Fine, let them suck up to the terrorists. Let's just defend America from terrorism.  To hell with Europe.  Wonder how they'll feel over there when the terrorists detanate a small nuke in Madrid or Paris.  Think that will get their attention?  I doubt it.

Why would they nuke Paris?

Gustav, they want to nuke us all.  We're all infidels.
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opebo
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2004, 05:41:54 PM »

I see Kerry and the Democrats as exactly equivalent to the Socialists in Spain - defeatist and appeasers.  We'll see if Al-Queda can come up with some way to help Kerry win.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2004, 05:49:53 PM »

Fine, let them suck up to the terrorists. Let's just defend America from terrorism.  To hell with Europe.  Wonder how they'll feel over there when the terrorists detanate a small nuke in Madrid or Paris.  Think that will get their attention?  I doubt it.

Why would they nuke Paris?

Gustav, they want to nuke us all.  We're all infidels.


Yeah, but they don't have that many nukes...Paris wouldn't be the first-gand cjoice, I think.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2004, 05:52:37 PM »

Appeasment is back in fashion I see.  This doesn't bode well for the future of the world.
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angus
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« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2004, 05:56:27 PM »

You people are reading way too much into the Spanish election.  And viewing it through the lenses offered by your own immersions in your own electorate.  The spaniards were angry at Aznar.  But Aznar is good-looking and a smooth talker, so they were ready to overlook the Iraq thing.  But then the strikes happen.  If you're in the USA or England, you rally around your leaders during those times, Spaniards don't.  In general, spanish-speaking people cannot be judged by the political standards by which you judge english-speaking people.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2004, 05:59:18 PM »

You people are reading way too much into the Spanish election.  And viewing it through the lenses offered by your own immersions in your own electorate.  The spaniards were angry at Aznar.  But Aznar is good-looking and a smooth talker, so they were ready to overlook the Iraq thing.  But then the strikes happen.  If you're in the USA or England, you rally around your leaders during those times, Spaniards don't.  In general, spanish-speaking people cannot be judged by the political standards by which you judge english-speaking people.

Exactly. I'm glad to see the first Republican to make some sense out of this. And to all of you, this is not a question of appeasement since the Spanish NEVER were in favour of the war, they've opposed it all along.
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opebo
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« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2004, 06:01:28 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:29:30 PM by Peter Bell »

Yeah, but they don't have that many nukes...Paris wouldn't be the first-gand cjoice, I think.

They'll get around to it.  Or just occupy Paris - its halfway occupied territory already.
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opebo
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« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2004, 06:02:36 PM »

You people are reading way too much into the Spanish election.  And viewing it through the lenses offered by your own immersions in your own electorate.  The spaniards were angry at Aznar.  But Aznar is good-looking and a smooth talker, so they were ready to overlook the Iraq thing.  But then the strikes happen.  If you're in the USA or England, you rally around your leaders during those times, Spaniards don't.  In general, spanish-speaking people cannot be judged by the political standards by which you judge english-speaking people.

Good point - their political culture is very poor compared to the Anglo-Saxon one.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2004, 06:09:50 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:29:52 PM by Peter Bell »

They'll get around to it.  Or just occupy Paris - its halfway occupied territory already.

Where are they gonna get all those nukes? They don't wanna piss off France, that's where they're gonna get their nukes from for crying out loud!
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agcatter
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« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2004, 06:25:34 PM »

Iran.  N. Korea, Rogue scientist from Pakistan.  Plutonium on the black market.  Who knows.  They just need one.  Getting it is the only barrier.  Anyone doubt they are frantic to get one and aren't leaving any stone unturned to get it?  Willingness to use it is not a problem for them.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2004, 06:27:16 PM »

Iran.  N. Korea, Rogue scientist from Pakistan.  Plutonium on the black market.  Who knows.  They just need one.  Getting it is the only barrier.  Anyone doubt they are frantic to get one and aren't leaving any stone unturned to get it?  Willingness to use it is not a problem for them.

I think few of those countries would risk it...and North Korea seems like a long shot, interaction isn't really their thing...and if they get one nuke they won't set it off in Paris, that'd be like choice number 1257 or something.
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agcatter
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« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2004, 06:34:05 PM »

Risk what?  How are you going to trace it?  And even if they did, President Kerry would just hit em with a UN resolution.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2004, 06:44:59 PM »

Risk what?  How are you going to trace it?  And even if they did, President Kerry would just hit em with a UN resolution.

There won't be a president Kerry...and I don't think he could do that if it was an American city. And you could definitely trace it, limited options etc. And all countries with nukes would be scared s*itless.
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agcatter
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« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2004, 06:51:10 PM »

Trust me.  They wouldn't be scared sh**tless or anything else of Kerry.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2004, 06:56:54 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2005, 08:30:29 PM by Peter Bell »

Exactly. I'm glad to see the first Republican to make some sense out of this. And to all of you, this is not a question of appeasement since the Spanish NEVER were in favour of the war, they've opposed it all along.

The withdrawl of Spanish troops is not going ot help the Iraq situation any.  And Aznar did wonders for the Spanish economy (ie- Flat Tax, and other reforms).  the socialist are going to reverse all that work.  Also, it doesn't matter, because Bin Laden and the Iraq people are going to see this and read it as the Spanish are pulling out because of terroist attacks so if we keep hitting all the other countries involved, then they will pullout of Iraq and the Middle-east.  This is dangerous.  Expect a MAJOR terrorist attack a week before US elections now.
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angus
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« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2004, 07:24:55 PM »



There won't be a president Kerry...


Wise.

Supersoulty, that's pretty much exactly the take in the WSJ today, as I pointed out in another thread.  I hadn't had my daily dose of GOP propaganda when I made my earlier post, but I do think many Republicans will become unnecessarily reactionary.  Edgar was very upset about the whole thing, but he's waaaay more conservative than I am.  It'll be interesting to hear what they're saying on FNC tonight.  I usually agree with your general logic on this forum, but I hope your last sentence is wrong this time.
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agcatter
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« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2004, 08:08:12 PM »

Look for them to hit the Brits or Italy next.  You'll immediately see hundreds of thousands in the steets demonstrating not against the terrorists that hit them, but Bush and Blair.  I think I'm going to throw up.
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angus
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2004, 10:19:03 PM »

Fine, let them suck up to the terrorists. Let's just defend America from terrorism.  To hell with Europe.  Wonder how they'll feel over there when the terrorists detanate a small nuke in Madrid or Paris.  Think that will get their attention?  I doubt it.

"we cannot simply say:  Now that they have a socialist government, The hell with them!  We need to do everything we can to help them to investigate this."

       --David Gergen (just now on Fox)
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2004, 10:21:09 PM »

Look for them to hit the Brits or Italy next.  You'll immediately see hundreds of thousands in the steets demonstrating not against the terrorists that hit them, but Bush and Blair.  I think I'm going to throw up.

You are 200% right on that one.
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angus
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« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2004, 10:29:41 PM »

Look for them to hit the Brits or Italy next.  You'll immediately see hundreds of thousands in the steets demonstrating not against the terrorists that hit them, but Bush and Blair.  I think I'm going to throw up.

You are 200% right on that one.

David Trimble is on C-SPAN just now being fairly philosophical about the whole thing and discussing the possibility of 'emboldening' the base.  You may be right, supersoulty, but I still hope you're wrong.
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