Howard Dean/Barack Obama (D) vs Ted Stevens/Billy Mays (R) in a Gore wins univer

[Zacoftheaxes]

Al Gore is elected president in 2000, there is still a war in Afghanistan, but it is going better. There is no war in Iraq but we're supporting the Saudi Arabia government in a civil war against a very well organized terrorist group. There is a slight recession, but it's nowhere near as bad as it is in our timeline. John McCain/Eric Cantor lose narrowly in 2004. Ted Stevens does not have his scandal. Billy Mays is the current governor of Pennsylvania in 2008. Who wins?

[Bo]

Since the recession is much less severe than in RL, Dean wins big. Will make a map later.

[Ameriplan]

wouldn't stevens be like 80?

[Zacoftheaxes]

wouldn't stevens be like 80?

Yes, he would be.

[Zacoftheaxes]

Is the map coming?

[Bo]

Dean/Obama-423 EV
Stevens/Mays-115 EV

[feeblepizza]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

[feeblepizza]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

[feeblepizza]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

[feeblepizza]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

If the recession is much less severe than in RL and with the GOP running a very corrupt 85-year old, I really don't see 2008 being a good year for the GOP in this scenario.

[feeblepizza]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

If the recession is much less severe than in RL and with the GOP running a very corrupt 85-year old, I really don't see 2008 being a good year for the GOP in this scenario.

The scenario said that Stevens' scandal did not happen.

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

If the recession is much less severe than in RL and with the GOP running a very corrupt 85-year old, I really don't see 2008 being a good year for the GOP in this scenario.

The scenario said that Stevens' scandal did not happen.

Sorry. Didn't see that. Well, Stevens's age would still hurt him a lot and I don't think many voters would view Mays as Presidential material.

[Zacoftheaxes]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

If the recession is much less severe than in RL and with the GOP running a very corrupt 85-year old, I really don't see 2008 being a good year for the GOP in this scenario.

The scenario said that Stevens' scandal did not happen.

Sorry. Didn't see that. Well, Stevens's age would still hurt him a lot and I don't think many voters would view Mays as Presidential material.

Mays has been a governor in this timeline, and there are still two wars and a slight recession.

The only factor really hurting Stevens is his age.

[Bo]

Mays cushions the blow by picking off NH, NJ, and PA from the Dem column of '04.

Dean/Obama (D) 334
Stevens/Mays (R) 204

No offense, but I can tell you're not very knowledgeable about politics if you have NJ, NH, and PA going to Stevens.

As I said, Mays did the work in the Northeast.

Those states are still pretty Democratic and 2008 was a very Democratic year, and thus I don't see any VP pick making that large of an impact there.

Mays is Governor of Pennsylvania, and in RL New Hampshire is always close (mostly Democratic, but always close). And New Jersey was very close in 2004.

Just because someone was Governor of a state doesn't mean he can necessarily deliver that state to his party. Kerry won both NH and NJ in a bad year for his party, so there's no way the Democrats lose those two states in a very good year for their party when Bush is massively unpopular.

Remember, this is in a Gore wins universe. It may be a good year for the Republicans, in a total reversal of RL

If the recession is much less severe than in RL and with the GOP running a very corrupt 85-year old, I really don't see 2008 being a good year for the GOP in this scenario.

The scenario said that Stevens' scandal did not happen.

Sorry. Didn't see that. Well, Stevens's age would still hurt him a lot and I don't think many voters would view Mays as Presidential material.

Mays has been a governor in this timeline, and there are still two wars and a slight recession.

The only factor really hurting Stevens is his age.

The U.S. is involved in one war--Afghanistan. The Saudi Arabian war is between themselves. The U.S. supports the Saudi govt. but doesn't send troops there. Stevens's age would hurt him a lot, and Stevens had other corruption allegations even without the scandal. Also, Dean is much more charismatic than Stevens. Finally, if the recession is slight, I really don't think it will hurt the Democrats that much.