Is Anne Frank in Hell?

[Mopsus]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

As an atheist, I think the same end awaits us all at death. That news is no better for Anne Frank than it is for people of much less virtue than she.  But, having been a Catholic once many moons ago, I always thought that it was God's job to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't, not ours.  Our job; "judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven."  End of story.  The ledgers are not in our hands, and it's a very good thing they're not, because human beings tend to judge one another quite unfairly in general.

Once again anvi proves he's top of the line

[afleitch]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

Of course for me the real beauty is knowing that my organs, if possible, help others live and that the matter that makes me is feasted on by the living things I feasted on and my atoms scattered and recycled. That gives me enough spiritual nourishment.

[DC Al Fine]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

The point. I would rather be where the innocent victims of Nazism ended up in the Afterlife than where the Nazis are. Being around Nazis would be Hell in itself. 

Who's to say the two groups have mutually exclusive afterlives?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

[afleitch]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

Well, if it's between Jmfcst and anyone else here getting sent to hell, chances are it's... I won't say it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

[afleitch]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

Of course you will.  You're a damned Scotsman aren't you?

[7,052,770]

Hell is a fantasy made up by powerful people to scare peasants into behaving.

I feel bad for you. With that viewpoint in Mississippi, you must be some kind of social pariah.

No?

[pbrower2a]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

The point. I would rather be where the innocent victims of Nazism ended up in the Afterlife than where the Nazis are. Being around Nazis would be Hell in itself. 

Who's to say the two groups have mutually exclusive afterlives?

Bad guys out of sight and out of mind? The idea that Heaven is a place in which one eternally takes delight  in the torments upon the most egregious sinners of all time makes little sense.  If anything one of the more exquisite punishments of Hell would be that those wretched souls confined for eternity are obliged to witness the delights of Heaven that they can never enjoy. Watching the dogs of Irma Grese tear Hitler apart forever would get very old very fast. 

It all depends upon whether one believes that God is just. If God is unjust, then He is as unworthy of worship as a gangster, tyrant, or serial killer.

...If someone denies that I am a real human being and instead that my posts here are the consequence of some non-human artificial intelligence designed to seem human -- unlike the conception of many of God, I would never hold that against someone. If God exists  and is perfect, then He is better than I could ever be. I just can't imagine a just God sending someone to Hell for not being a Christian. Perpetrating the Holocaust?  Very different.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I just can't imagine a just God sending someone to Hell for not being a Christian.

More generally, the incongruity of the idea that a just God would send someone to Hell when they had never had the chance to to hear the message of Christ from him or his disciples is a principal reason I am a Universalist. (There are other possibilities that logically resolve that incongruity such as the possibility in Mormon theology that the dead can be saved in the afterlife, but Universalism is the one that seems most simple and elegant of those I have come across.)

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

But it doesn't have to be that way though Afleitch.

As to the where is Anne Frank in all this. I honestly don't know where she will spend eternity. Only the Father knows because he has The Lambs Book of Life. Yes it does depend on if you put your faith in Jesus or not as to where you spend eternity.

[afleitch]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

But it doesn't have to be that way though Afleitch.

Please do not proselytise to me. I believe that when I die, I die and that is it. It doesn't concern me and hollow threats of hell don't work

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

If Mormonism is right, then no, she's in one of the Mormon heavens.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

But it doesn't have to be that way though Afleitch.

Please do not proselytise to me. I believe that when I die, I die and that is it. It doesn't concern me and hollow threats of hell don't work

So you don't believe in an afterlife?

[afleitch]

No. If she is I'd rather be there with her and people like her than the other place when I die.

"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."

Of course If for whatever reason I'm sent to the basement floor for not believing, or believing the wrong thing or being a gay or whatever reason is waved around then my husband is going to be there too, for the same reasons. So if I have to spend an eternity in literal or metaphorical hell then I'd rather spend it with the one person that helps me get through my 'hellish' moments on earth than enjoy the penthouse suite without him.

If you do indeed get sent to Hell, why would you expect to be next to the husband you love?  I'd think it far likelier you'd end up next to jmfcst, tho whether as a fellow inmate or as part of the staff I'll leave others to speculate on.

That seems quite a barbed thing to say.

True.  But I never said he definitely would go there, just you'd be likelier to run into him there, and that because I would expect that if people do encounter people they know in Hell it would be far likelier that they would encounter adversaries than supporters.

Cause I'm going to be there am I right

But it doesn't have to be that way though Afleitch.

Please do not proselytise to me. I believe that when I die, I die and that is it. It doesn't concern me and hollow threats of hell don't work

So you don't believe in an afterlife?

No. As I’ve said on here earlier I have as much concern about what happens after I die as I have for what happened before I was alive. Seneca said that there are two states of consciousness that humans can experience; being fully conscious or being unconscious and everything in between. If you put under general anaesthetic you are brought to a state of a deep unconsciousness (with a small risk of death) to the extent that you may require assistance in breathing and your life signs need to be monitored. When unconscious I saw nothing, felt nothing, experienced nothing and knew nothing. All I can recall is being put under and then being awake. So I know what unconsciousness feels like. I see no reason why if the closer and closer you get to death the more unconscious you become, that when you actually die anything different happens. I see no reason why a third ‘special’ state of eternal consciousness detached from my dead (or not alive) physical form should exist just because I am human; it is wishful thinking.

If such a ‘consciousness’ exists, then I have already experienced it prior to being born or conceived and given that I have no conscious memory of it then it was a state of unconsciousness. If it continues when I physically die then I would expect it to be the same. Death is a state of nothingness just as much as not yet being conceived is a state of nothingness. An afterlife on the other hand is a state of ‘somethingness’ often moulded into a manifestation of human desires or fears for pain, pleasure, companionship or separation. Such things shouldn’t matter when you are dead.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

God is the divine in Heaven and Jesus is the divine on earth. Those who believe in the divine will be saved and those that don't shall perish. Allah, Jehovah Jireh and Jesus are one of the same.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

God is the divine in Heaven and Jesus is the divine on earth. Those who believe in the divine will be saved and those that don't shall perish. Allah, Jehovah Jireh and Jesus are one of the same.

Allah and Jesus are not one in the same. Jesus and Yahweh however are. Islam denies the fatherhood of God and thus denies the Son as being co-equal.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Sorry JCL, but Muslims worship the same God you and I do.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Allah (which is just the Arabic word for 'God', remember) and God the Father are arguably more one-and-the-same than God the Father and Jesus are, unless you're a Oneness Pentecostal.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Honestly, I don't care.  I'll leave that up to God to decide.

That being said, she was an FF in the truest sense of the term.

[Franzl]

I'll leave that up to God to decide.

I think you're making a good decision to delegate your power.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Sorry JCL, but Muslims worship the same God you and I do.

Muslims deny that God is a Father. Look at Sura 5:18 for example,

And (both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are the children of Allah and His loved ones." Say: "Why then does He punish you for your sins?" Nay, you are but human beings, of those He has created, He forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and to Him is the return (of all).

Since they deny God as father they automatically deny the mere possibility of The Son.

Allah (which is just the Arabic word for 'God', remember) and God the Father are arguably more one-and-the-same than God the Father and Jesus are, unless you're a Oneness Pentecostal.

Since Islam denies the Father/Son relationship between Yahweh and Yeshua, Allah and God the Father can never be the same. I'm not a Oneness Pentecostal. Jesus and the Father are much closer to being one by any stretch. Look at John 10:22-30 (NLT)

22 It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication. 23 He was in the Temple, walking through the section known as Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The people surrounded him and asked, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

"25 Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name. 26 But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else.[d] No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”"

I could go further and give you the numerous statements just between here and the end of the end of The Gospel of John alone to show the reader how close the relationship between the Father and Son really is and throw in the Holy Spirit for bonus. However to bring this back to the core of the question of the thread. Oldies says that only God knows. That is correct. To pose this question because of relevance, could Anne Frank have come to faith in Jesus as her Saviour?