Is Anne Frank in Hell?

[useful idiot]

What the hell does the Jewish thing matter? Why are you focusing solely on them?

[useful idiot]

What the hell does the Jewish thing matter? Why are you focusing solely on them?

I used Jewish people here since Anne Frank is such a beloved person in history. But you're right you could put in any non-Christan faith.

Nobody knows where she is. For the purposes of discussion it really doesn't matter. But yeah, as a Christian one has to accept that those, of able mind, who don't accept Christ will perish. If there's no God, then Christians are wrong so it doesn't matter. That's the great thing about having the freedom of conscience; if you don't want to believe it then you don't have to.

The problem that questions like yours pose for Christians is that it makes no sense in a Christian worldview. It presupposes two things: 1) That humans don't deserve hell, and 2) That he who created all mankind doesn't have the right to do with them as he wishes. This has the effect of elevating man and bringing God down to man's level, and takes us back to the original sin of pride, that which the serpent tempted Adam with. It disrespects the distinction between creator and creation.

But again, you're free to believe whatever you want. I merely find the statement that you wouldn't want to go to heaven if non-Christians were sent to hell to be quite funny. It's the equivalent of being a dog and saying you don't want an owner because other dogs are going to be put down.

[useful idiot]

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

Well if you're an adherent to the unofficial churches (i.e. Protestant ones) I can see someone believing that.

It's quite clear to me that Jesus's message was love and acceptance for all people. I believe in Jesus, but I think deep down we're all Christians. I also believe that salvation is found through faith and good works. If someone is a good person then yes, they have earned a spot in heaven. God looks at people deep down inside, not just what faith they subscribe to.

But why do you believe that? Why is that "clear" to you? I can see why atheists don't understand how people believe the claims in the Bible, but how on earth can anyone believe things like that without the Bible(since apparently that isn't your source for these beliefs of yours)? It makes far less sense.

Without believing in the authenticity of the Bible(like the "unofficial" churches you speak of do), then short of direct revelation from God, on what basis do you believe anything about Jesus?

[useful idiot]

How dare all these non-Christians not abandon the faith they were raised from birth to believe, and accept some other faith that has no more proof than their own.

Again, the beauty is that if someone doesn't want to believe it, they don't have to.

Honestly, if the Christian idea of salvation is so unbelievable, and yet so wicked, then why do people get upset by it? It should cause no more outrage than the fact that Snow White's stepmother tried to poison her.

[useful idiot]

Jewish people sure do go to hell.  Because they have not had their sins washed away by the blood of our Savior, Christ Jesus. 

Jesus was Jewish.  Hurr hurr.

You're missing the point here.  From a Christian perspective, Jews would be condemned precisely because the Savior was sent to them and they ignored and rejected his message.

I'm not a Christian, but I have difficulty understanding how anyone could interpret Christianity as saying other than that only faith (sola fides) can save.  It's pretty clear in the text.

Some scholars interpret Jesus as dying for the Jews only though. Those who believe and did not first become Jewish are not part of the chosen people if you go by certain verses.

Interpret it that way based on what exactly? And who are these "scholars"?

[useful idiot]

Jewish people sure do go to hell.  Because they have not had their sins washed away by the blood of our Savior, Christ Jesus. 

Jesus was Jewish.  Hurr hurr.

You're missing the point here.  From a Christian perspective, Jews would be condemned precisely because the Savior was sent to them and they ignored and rejected his message.

I'm not a Christian, but I have difficulty understanding how anyone could interpret Christianity as saying other than that only faith (sola fides) can save.  It's pretty clear in the text.

Some scholars interpret Jesus as dying for the Jews only though. Those who believe and did not first become Jewish are not part of the chosen people if you go by certain verses.

Interpret it that way based on what exactly? And who are these "scholars"?

Look for centuries the Jews believed that a messiah would save them and eventually along came Jesus. Most Jews rejected him to be the messiah. While the act of life coming from a death was not unique to the Jews, Jesus spoke of a new direction for the Jews. That is where the messianic Jewish philosophy comes from. I can't believe you've never heard of this and to name scholars would be a waste of time. Stop trying to pick at every little thing and argue your own ideas once in a while. Why do you disagree that Jesus wasn't exclusively for the Jews? Or do you agree and just have nothing better to do than come on here and ask for a scholar's name? http://www.messianicjews.info/general/faq.html Here is a link with some 101 facts about Messianic Judaism.

Nothing of what you just said means anything. Please give me some instance in the New Testament that confirms the idea that Christ mentioned, or that any of his apostles or the writers of the Epistles felt, that he died only for Jews. Yes Peter thought that converts must become circumsized, but Paul corrected him.

Messianic Judaism is a recent phenomenon, and a small one, that is slightly bananas. I don't see how the fact that "the Jews believed that a messiah would save them" has any bearing on what you said.

If it's a waste of time to ask you to cite the "scholars" you claim believe this, then surely it was a waste of time for you to have written it in the first place.

[useful idiot]

Jewish people sure do go to hell.  Because they have not had their sins washed away by the blood of our Savior, Christ Jesus. 

Jesus was Jewish.  Hurr hurr.

You're missing the point here.  From a Christian perspective, Jews would be condemned precisely because the Savior was sent to them and they ignored and rejected his message.

I'm not a Christian, but I have difficulty understanding how anyone could interpret Christianity as saying other than that only faith (sola fides) can save.  It's pretty clear in the text.

Some scholars interpret Jesus as dying for the Jews only though. Those who believe and did not first become Jewish are not part of the chosen people if you go by certain verses.

Interpret it that way based on what exactly? And who are these "scholars"?

Look for centuries the Jews believed that a messiah would save them and eventually along came Jesus. Most Jews rejected him to be the messiah. While the act of life coming from a death was not unique to the Jews, Jesus spoke of a new direction for the Jews. That is where the messianic Jewish philosophy comes from. I can't believe you've never heard of this and to name scholars would be a waste of time. Stop trying to pick at every little thing and argue your own ideas once in a while. Why do you disagree that Jesus wasn't exclusively for the Jews? Or do you agree and just have nothing better to do than come on here and ask for a scholar's name? http://www.messianicjews.info/general/faq.html Here is a link with some 101 facts about Messianic Judaism.

Nothing of what you just said means anything. Please give me some instance in the New Testament that confirms the idea that Christ mentioned, or that any of his apostles or the writers of the Epistles felt, that he died only for Jews. Yes Peter thought that converts must become circumsized, but Paul corrected him.

Messianic Judaism is a recent phenomenon, and a small one, that is slightly bananas. I don't see how the fact that "the Jews believed that a messiah would save them" has any bearing on what you said.

If it's a waste of time to ask you to cite the "scholars" you claim believe this, then surely it was a waste of time for you to have written it in the first place.

Paul corrected him or perverted his teachings? J.D. Crossan would strongly disagree with you on this. There were ancient Jews who sacrificed lambs to Yahweh and Jesus was seen to be the ultimate sacrifice. It's highly poetic to us, but it was a belief at that time. It's true that not too many of the actual Jews took up Christianity and that by the end of the first century it was mostly Gentiles who had converted. This doesn't mean that it was what Jesus intended. The Jews saw themselves as special. I'm not sure what you're getting at by waste of time. I've spent alot of my time bickering over these petty translations with professors and colleagues on this matter. I happen to disagree with Messianic Judaism on philosophical matters but that's a different topic all together. 

I ask you for a legitimate scholar and you give me someone from THE JESUS SEMINAR???!!! To think, you went to the same seminary as Sproul*....


*Or so you claim

[useful idiot]

Who is Sproul?

The most famous Presbyterian theologian of the last 40 years.