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| | |-+  Why is Vermont so liberal nowadays?
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Author Topic: Why is Vermont so liberal nowadays?  (Read 8051 times)
feeblepizza
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2010, 02:47:57 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P
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Robb the Survivor
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2010, 03:22:14 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P

LOL
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2010, 05:05:00 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P

Funny. We have a 11 year old poster who's acting and discussion like adult.

And now we got 11/12 year old fool to balance this.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2010, 05:13:45 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P

Funny. We have a 11 year old poster who's acting and discussion like adult.

And now we got 11/12 year old fool to balance this.

WHo the hell is that?
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23:19   Xahar   you're literally a white dude Mechaman
Kalwejt
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2010, 05:15:54 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P

Funny. We have a 11 year old poster who's acting and discussion like adult.

And now we got 11/12 year old fool to balance this.

WHo the hell is that?

Hawkeye pretty much.

Whatever you're going to say, he's more mature than a lot of our adult posters.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2010, 05:27:21 pm »
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You guys realise that feeblepizza (?) is eleven years old and there's no point trying to have a rational argument with the kid, right?

I'm 12 =P

Funny. We have a 11 year old poster who's acting and discussion like adult.

And now we got 11/12 year old fool to balance this.

WHo the hell is that?

Hawkeye pretty much.

Whatever you're going to say, he's more mature than a lot of our adult posters.
Oh right, that kid.

He's a fucking retard!
Hey someone's gotta keep the mods busy......

Yeah I think he's pretty smart.
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23:19   Xahar   you're literally a white dude Mechaman
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2010, 03:54:02 pm »
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There certainly was a shift starting in the 60s when affluent urbanites began settling in VT, but the state has always been pretty egotistical and independent in a liberal-libertarian kind of way.  VT voted reliably Republican from the civil war era through the Reagan years because they percieved the Democrats as too southern and too populist.  They couldn't stand guys like William Jennings Bryan or Woodrow Wilson.  VT also voted against FDR all four times mainly because the small rural state did not feel the effects of the depression and it's citizens saw the new deal as unconstitutional.  Nowdays, the Democrats have become home to the affluent, educated WASPs while the Republican Party has gotten more populist/southern, so naturally Vermonters have flipped on the presidential level.  However, the state/local Republican Party in VT is still competitive, albeit much more socially liberal than the national party.  If Mit Romney wins the nomination in 2012 and runs on fiscally conservative principles, I could see Obama actually losing 5-10 percentage points in VT.

Fiscally conservative points?!  Their one Representative is a self-desbribed Socialist! 
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« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2010, 10:03:33 pm »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic. Maine and New Hampshire have also trended Democratic but to far smaller degrees. What's the difference?
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Senator Libertas
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« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2010, 10:06:25 pm »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic. Maine and New Hampshire have also trended Democratic but to far smaller degrees. What's the difference?

Lots of people moved there from places like New York and Massachusetts, and brought with them their Democratic voting patterns.
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Nichlemn
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« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2010, 10:47:19 pm »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic. Maine and New Hampshire have also trended Democratic but to far smaller degrees. What's the difference?

Lots of people moved there from places like New York and Massachusetts, and brought with them their Democratic voting patterns.

1) Why Vermont to such a strong degree compared to New Hampshire? (Yes, NH doesn't border NY, but it is closer to Boston).
2) Vermont is even more Democratic (according to CPVI) than either of those states. So, this would imply that the migrants were even more Democratic than the states they left. Why did liberals want to move to Vermont?
3) The swing from pre-1964 to 2008 is far too large for this to be the main cause.
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Senator Libertas
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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2010, 12:18:51 am »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic. Maine and New Hampshire have also trended Democratic but to far smaller degrees. What's the difference?

Lots of people moved there from places like New York and Massachusetts, and brought with them their Democratic voting patterns.

1) Why Vermont to such a strong degree compared to New Hampshire? (Yes, NH doesn't border NY, but it is closer to Boston).
2) Vermont is even more Democratic (according to CPVI) than either of those states. So, this would imply that the migrants were even more Democratic than the states they left. Why did liberals want to move to Vermont?
3) The swing from pre-1964 to 2008 is far too large for this to be the main cause.

Lots of hippies started moving there in the 60s to escape the cities, establishing Vermont's modern reputation, then more similar people moved there attracted by that reputation, and it became a self-perpetuating cycle.

Vermont isn't really more Democratic than Massachusetts in any meaningful way. It may be more anti-GOP, but it doesn't have the deep partisan Democratic roots of MA, NY, RI, etc. It preferred an "Independent Socialist" for it's Congressman and Senator, after all.
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« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2010, 01:12:04 am »
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There were lots of transplants to NH. But most of them were Republicans who fleed in the 70's and 80's from high taxes in MA. Hence the Southern Counties are the most Republican and are considered part of Boston's metorpoilitan area. Looking at Northern New Hampshire there are similarities to certain areas of Vermont and Maine. Its New Hampshire that is different then the other two. While the GOP began its complete decline in all three in the late 60's, it rebounded in the NH in 80's while VT and ME continued to fall away.

I beleive also that most of the hippie transplants located in the Burlington area. The trend towards the Democratic party has occured pretty uniform acrossed the state.
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Dgov
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« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2010, 02:56:27 am »
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Vermont is actually very similar to Western MA, for those interested.  Both regions are approximatly 70% Democrat, and typically have a small-town Liberal feel to them.
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« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2010, 04:19:37 am »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic.

Perhaps it is accustomed to being homogeneous in its voting patterns.
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« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2010, 09:26:03 am »
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I don't find the "shift of the GOP" argument alone satisfactory, since it doesn't explain why only Vermont has swung to such an extreme degree. Vermont has gone from being the most Republican state to possibly the most Democratic.

Perhaps it is accustomed to being homogeneous in its voting patterns.

Being small and ethnically homogeneous breeds some rather homogeneous and insular voting patterns.

At any rate, the "transplants from MA and NY" moving in is a rather crappy one.
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Vepres
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« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2010, 05:21:24 pm »
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Did the liberal transplants simply begin outnumber Yankee Republicans?

The state actually doesn't seem to be too fiscally liberal, they are just emphatically anti-war and socially liberal, at least, that's the impression I get.

There were lots of transplants to NH. But most of them were Republicans who fleed in the 70's and 80's from high taxes in MA. Hence the Southern Counties are the most Republican and are considered part of Boston's metorpoilitan area. Looking at Northern New Hampshire there are similarities to certain areas of Vermont and Maine. Its New Hampshire that is different then the other two. While the GOP began its complete decline in all three in the late 60's, it rebounded in the NH in 80's while VT and ME continued to fall away.

I beleive also that most of the hippie transplants located in the Burlington area. The trend towards the Democratic party has occured pretty uniform acrossed the state.

But Maine hasn't swung nearly as hard as Vermont. 65% D vs. 57% D, eight points is not negligible.
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« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2010, 05:48:13 pm »
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Did the liberal transplants simply begin outnumber Yankee Republicans?

This was brought up onn another thread a while ago, but Vermont has the highest percentage of it's residents born out-of-state for any state in the country (50-60%).  Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean were both New Yorkers by birth.
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2010, 05:59:43 pm »
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Vermont has more Americans moving in than out, which is rare for the northeast, and up until this decade wasn't the case for Maine.



Nevertheless, I definitely suspect that this:
Vermont has the highest percentage of it's residents born out-of-state for any state in the country (50-60%).

 is false. From the census document I got the map from, many states in the sun belt have much higher inmigration rates - for instance VT had 1.2% during the 1990's vs. 29.8% for NV. I know these statistics aren't strictly correlated with each other, but still.
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Senator Libertas
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« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2010, 06:37:54 pm »
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Vermont has more Americans moving in than out, which is rare for the northeast, and up until this decade wasn't the case for Maine.

Nevertheless, I definitely suspect that this:
Vermont has the highest percentage of it's residents born out-of-state for any state in the country (50-60%).

 is false. From the census document I got the map from, many states in the sun belt have much higher inmigration rates - for instance VT had 1.2% during the 1990's vs. 29.8% for NV. I know these statistics aren't strictly correlated with each other, but still.

Well the percentage of Vermont's population born outside the state was close to or at half around 2004.

The ratio becomes even more pronounced when you're talking about college educated Vermonters, of which 73% were born outside the state in 2005.

Assuming similar migration patterns have continued over the past 5-6 years, both of these numbers have indubitably gone even higher.

Though Vermont does not have "the highest percentage of it's residents born out-of-state for any state in the country", I don't think it was that outrageous for him to claim 50-60% as a reasonable range for the percentage born out-of-state in 2010 Vermont.


Talking 'bah-k' in Vermont
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But those influences arrived and intensified in the 20th century, accelerated by easier transportation and Vermont's growing attraction for the city-weary. More than half of the state's current population was born elsewhere, said J. Kevin Graffagnino, director of the Vermont Historical Society.


Vermont in Transition


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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2010, 06:46:44 pm »
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yeah, sorry I meant just the "highest" part, not the quoted number.
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Carlos Danger
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« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2010, 06:53:05 pm »
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I'm surprised that Vermont has the highest percentage of out-of-staters - I would have guessed New Mexico, with Nevada and Arizona as my second and third guesses.
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Dgov
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« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2010, 07:24:05 pm »
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I'm surprised that Vermont has the highest percentage of out-of-staters - I would have guessed New Mexico, with Nevada and Arizona as my second and third guesses.

New Mexico actually has a fairly US-born Hispanic Population (closet to 90%), so it's not likely to make that list.

I'd Guess Texas is up there though, as it's the only major state getting significant immigrants from both inside and outside of the country
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« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2010, 07:28:07 pm »
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I was thinking more of the wave of caucasian immigrants to those states.
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