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Author Topic: I've had enough of the Israel-bashing  (Read 3432 times)
Judäischen Volksfront
exnaderite
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« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2010, 01:12:22 am »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?
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« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2010, 01:15:31 am »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

When has Israel commited genocide?
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Judäischen Volksfront
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« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2010, 01:43:20 am »
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When has Israel commited genocide?

"Give me billions of dollars per year no questions asked and for no rational reason or I'll wipe out six million Arabs" is blackmail and a threat to commit genocide. Just sayin'.
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« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2010, 12:44:36 pm »
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I'm pro-life, but i think Israel should be nuked.
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« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2010, 12:47:13 pm »
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When has Israel commited genocide?

"Give me billions of dollars per year no questions asked and for no rational reason or I'll wipe out six million Arabs" is blackmail and a threat to commit genocide. Just sayin'.

I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.
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« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2010, 12:52:49 pm »
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When has Israel commited genocide?

"Give me billions of dollars per year no questions asked and for no rational reason or I'll wipe out six million Arabs" is blackmail and a threat to commit genocide. Just sayin'.

I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.

Why would that be necessary? Kennedy would be taken out before the year was through.
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« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2010, 12:56:35 pm »
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I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.

Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.
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« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2010, 06:27:16 pm »
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I don't think Israel ever made those kinds of threats. They sure didn't in 1963 when JFK planned to cut aid to them, or in 1975, or in 1991.

Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Derek is not an official representative of the Israeli govt. and he is not speaking to any U.S. govt. official.
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Derek
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« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2010, 02:28:16 am »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

What do you mean? No one is committing genocide or blackmailing anyone? Israel is under some type of control as a result of our support. To discontinue our support and take such a chance is the wrong thing to do. Now if they were threatening to strike us if we didn't support them that would be different because then they'd actually be the ones controlling us.
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« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2010, 02:02:31 pm »
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In light of everything, there isn't enough bashing, imo.

Quote
NAZARETH // The contents of a secretly recorded video threaten to gravely embarrass not only Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister but also the US administration of Barack Obama.

The film was shot, apparently without Mr Netanyahu’s knowledge, nine years ago, when the government of Ariel Sharon had started reinvading the main cities of the West Bank to crush Palestinian resistance in the early stages of the second intifada.
....

Seated on a sofa in the house, he tells the family that he deceived the US president of the time, Bill Clinton, into believing he was helping implement the Oslo accords, the US-sponsored peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, by making minor withdrawals from the West Bank while actually entrenching the occupation. He boasts that he thereby destroyed the Oslo process.

He dismisses the US as “easily moved to the right direction” and calls high levels of popular American support for Israel “absurd”.

He also suggests that, far from being defensive, Israel’s harsh military repression of the Palestinian uprising was designed chiefly to crush the Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat so that it could be made more pliable for Israeli diktats.

....

Writing in the liberal Haaretz newspaper, the columnist Gideon Levy called the video “outrageous”. He said it proved that Mr Netanyahu was a “con artist … who thinks that Washington is in his pocket and that he can pull the wool over its eyes”. He added that the prime minister had not reformed in the intervening period: “Such a crooked way of thinking does not change over the years.”

In the film, Mr Netanyahu says Israel must inflict “blows [on the Palestinians] that are so painful the price will be too heavy to be borne … A broad attack on the Palestinian Authority, to bring them to the point of being afraid that everything is collapsing”.

When asked if the US will object, he responds: “America is something that can be easily moved. Moved to the right direction … They won’t get in our way … Eighty per cent of the Americans support us. It’s absurd.”

....


“The trick,” he says, “is not to be there [in the occupied territories] and be broken; the trick is to be there and pay a minimal price.”

The “trick” that stopped further withdrawals, Mr Netanyahu adds, was to redefine what parts of the occupied territories counted as a “specified military site” under the Oslo accords. He wanted the White House to approve in writing the classification of the Jordan Valley, a large area of the West Bank, as such a military site.
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« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2010, 04:04:39 pm »
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I'm pro-life, but i think Israel should be nuked.

So in other words, you've combined an awful view with a completely anti-Semitic and stupid one.
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Judäischen Volksfront
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« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2010, 06:38:27 pm »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

What do you mean? No one is committing genocide or blackmailing anyone? Israel is under some type of control as a result of our support. To discontinue our support and take such a chance is the wrong thing to do. Now if they were threatening to strike us if we didn't support them that would be different because then they'd actually be the ones controlling us.
If cutting off aid means that Israel implements their Final Solution for the Palestinian Problem, which involves sending six million Arabs to camps, it will be their decision, and their consequences.
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« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2010, 06:47:16 pm »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

What do you mean? No one is committing genocide or blackmailing anyone? Israel is under some type of control as a result of our support. To discontinue our support and take such a chance is the wrong thing to do. Now if they were threatening to strike us if we didn't support them that would be different because then they'd actually be the ones controlling us.
If cutting off aid means that Israel implements their Final Solution for the Palestinian Problem, which involves sending six million Arabs to camps, it will be their decision, and their consequences.

If the U.S. will cut off aid to Israel, chances are Israel just draws its borders unilaterally, adding East Jerusalem, the major West Bank settlements, and maybe some of the Hordan Valley to Israel while creating a Palestinian state in the rest of the West Bank and in Gaza. 0% chance that what you wrote will actually happen.
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« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2010, 07:07:42 pm »
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If the U.S. will cut off aid to Israel, chances are Israel just draws its borders unilaterally, adding East Jerusalem, the major West Bank settlements, and maybe some of the Hordan Valley to Israel while creating a Palestinian state in the rest of the West Bank and in Gaza. 0% chance that what you wrote will actually happen.

Israel has already declared East Jerusalem in its borders. The West Bank settlements and the Jordan River are de-facto part of Israel even if no one officially recognizes it as so. A Palestinian state in the region will immediately resemble the bantustans of South Africa. The claims that Israel practices Apartheid seem doubtful now, but will definitely be true if it annexes the entire West Bank minus a few islands. Inevitably (given that its main backer has cut it off), the crippling sanctions will follow and millions of secular and wealthy Jews with western passports will flee. Hamas will have won the war without firing a shot. At least we can always hold out hope that a charismatic Nelson Mandela-type figure who preaches reconciliation will emerge to save the day.

The ball is always in their court.
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« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2010, 08:57:23 pm »
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I was saying that we are a "Christian Nation" not Israel. Christians think they are doing the Christian thing by saying they support Israel even though they have no idea that ancient texts regarded territory as important for their tribes and it has nothing to do with the will of Yahweh or El. Do you want Israel to wipe out other countries in the Middle East after we stop supporting them? I know I don't.

Since when is it Christian to submit to genocidal blackmail?

What do you mean? No one is committing genocide or blackmailing anyone? Israel is under some type of control as a result of our support. To discontinue our support and take such a chance is the wrong thing to do. Now if they were threatening to strike us if we didn't support them that would be different because then they'd actually be the ones controlling us.
If cutting off aid means that Israel implements their Final Solution for the Palestinian Problem, which involves sending six million Arabs to camps, it will be their decision, and their consequences.

That doesn't sound like a peaceful foreign policy.
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« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2010, 11:31:17 pm »
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If the U.S. will cut off aid to Israel, chances are Israel just draws its borders unilaterally, adding East Jerusalem, the major West Bank settlements, and maybe some of the Hordan Valley to Israel while creating a Palestinian state in the rest of the West Bank and in Gaza. 0% chance that what you wrote will actually happen.

Israel has already declared East Jerusalem in its borders. The West Bank settlements and the Jordan River are de-facto part of Israel even if no one officially recognizes it as so. A Palestinian state in the region will immediately resemble the bantustans of South Africa. The claims that Israel practices Apartheid seem doubtful now, but will definitely be true if it annexes the entire West Bank minus a few islands. Inevitably (given that its main backer has cut it off), the crippling sanctions will follow and millions of secular and wealthy Jews with western passports will flee. Hamas will have won the war without firing a shot. At least we can always hold out hope that a charismatic Nelson Mandela-type figure who preaches reconciliation will emerge to save the day.

The ball is always in their court.

I think Israel would care too much about their international reputation to annex most of the West Bank (in this scenario). At most, they annex the Jewish areas and some sparesly populated areas in the Jordan Valley/Negev Desert. A continguous Palestinian state would then be formed on 75-90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza. And no one would be able to accuse Israel of apartheid because Israel would still have a large Jewish majority. And to be honest I don't think the Palestinians would be that bad off in this scenario. But I still think this scenario is unlikely because I seriously doubt the U.S. would cut aid to Israel.
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« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2010, 01:23:23 am »
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Of course the Arabs wouldn't be that bad off. The blacks weren't that bad off in the bantustans.
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« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2010, 06:29:10 am »
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I wouldn't mind so many threads on the Israeli/Palestinian mess, but it would be nice if they were at least slightly less mindless and reductionist. Right now such threads (including this one!) tend to be almost ritualistic.
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« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2010, 11:23:27 pm »
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To some extent I wouldn't mind seeing some Israeli annexation. Jews tend to be moral and live by the Old Testament and while I have strong historical disagreements with how the OT is interpreted today, it keeps people in line politically. Just look at Alabama and Mississippi. However, I'd prefer peace and harmony if possible.
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« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2010, 10:13:57 am »
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I will use this thread to note two things I wanted to say on the old "I don't care about Israel"-thread which was locked.

1. It always made me think of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF6JMotbHYM partly because I remembered the lyrics wrong in the obvious manner.

2. I read an article on that exact same theme (not caring about Israel) in the "newspaper" National Today, distributed by ultra-racist National Democrats a couple of weeks ago.
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« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2010, 10:21:40 am »
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Seriously guys. Enough already.

Certain posters, Libertas being the best example but also with other posters such as FallenMorgan and BRTD have taken a completely one sided view of this. Everytime Palestinians are killed, the cliche left wing or libertarian types immediately cry out about 'Zionist oppression' and 'Israeli apartheid'. Yet, when Palestinian rockets fall on Israeli villages and children are murdered, they don't even care. They vary in their reasons why.

So are you back on the "right wing" then?

Quote
Israel has constantly tried to make peace with the Arab nations surrounding it. It was even willing to give up territory for peace, as it did with Egypt when it returned the Sinai in return for a simple peace treaty. However, Arab countries with help from countries such as Cuba and North Korea, have refused to even contemplate the idea of negotiating with Israel. Instead, they launched wars against Israel for their own nationalist causes.

LOL no. 'Israel' is the aggressor, occupying what is rightfully Palestinian land. They are in no position to be dictating the terms of 'peace'.

Quote
I hate to put it so frankly, but the Arabs do not give a toss about the Palestinians. In the Arab countries, Palestinians are treated like dirt. They are basically second class citizens. So clearly, altruism isn't the Arabs reasons for supporting Palestine. Which can only leave the conclusion that they are hostile to the existence of a Jewish state in the region and wish to wipe it out. But nevertheless, there is no Palestinian resentment against Arab countries.
Why should Palestinians resent other Arab nations, who are not occupying their land, rather than Zionists, who are certainly occupying their and?

Quote
Certain posters such as Rochembeau and benconstine have stood up for Israel. But not nearly enough had. So I have to ask: Why? I'm sorry if my tone seems blunt, but I'm sick of the hypocrisy of the left and of libertarianism when it comes to this issue.

Uh, right, Roch and constine are the balanced ones, their only problem is not they're not fanatically devoted to Zionism enough for you? Shocked

I wonder whatever happened to the Palestinian territories after the Israeli state was founded, before the 6 days war. There was something, but it eludes me at the moment. Might have to google it, I suppose.
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