Who was more responsible for the end of the Cold War and the Soviet collapse?
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  Who was more responsible for the end of the Cold War and the Soviet collapse?
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#1
Gorbachev
 
#2
Reagan
 
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Author Topic: Who was more responsible for the end of the Cold War and the Soviet collapse?  (Read 3773 times)
Bo
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« on: July 13, 2010, 01:34:03 AM »

Gorbachev, by far.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 04:34:38 PM »

Other-The Beatles.

But seriously, Gorbachev.
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Thomas D
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 05:52:25 PM »

Gorby
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Roemerista
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 06:03:47 PM »

Reagan of course.
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Derek
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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 09:01:52 PM »

Reagan baby.

Mr. Gorbachev, if you desire peace, tear down this wall!!! I'll tell you what that's comparable to the sermon on the mount and was the best speech in presidential history until Bush landed on the aircraft carrier.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 10:00:19 PM »

Reagan baby.

Mr. Gorbachev, if you desire peace, tear down this wall!!! I'll tell you what that's comparable to the sermon on the mount and was the best speech in presidential history until Bush landed on the aircraft carrier.

And clearly Gorbachev did that solely because Reagan told him to. Roll Eyes
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Derek
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 10:29:26 PM »

Reagan baby.

Mr. Gorbachev, if you desire peace, tear down this wall!!! I'll tell you what that's comparable to the sermon on the mount and was the best speech in presidential history until Bush landed on the aircraft carrier.

And clearly Gorbachev did that solely because Reagan told him to. Roll Eyes

Reagan achieved matters peacefully.
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justW353
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 11:21:14 PM »

Obviously Gorbachev.  Derek is a...very nice person who isn't an idiot at all.
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dead0man
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2010, 12:36:05 AM »

I see "planned economy" isn't on the list.  I suppose Gorby out of the sh**tty options listed, but he was just in control of the timing of it....the collapse was inevitable.
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Bo
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2010, 12:47:40 AM »

Reagan baby.

Mr. Gorbachev, if you desire peace, tear down this wall!!! I'll tell you what that's comparable to the sermon on the mount and was the best speech in presidential history until Bush landed on the aircraft carrier.

And clearly Gorbachev did that solely because Reagan told him to. Roll Eyes

Reagan achieved matters peacefully.

First of all, the U.S.S.R. didn't even collapse under Reagan's watch. And secondly, another President would have handled the Soviet collapse just as well. No politician was stupid enough to go to war with the U.S.S.R. And had another hardliner come into power (in the U.S.S.R.) in 1985, the U.S.S.R. would have probably liberalized its economy without giving its people more political freedoms. Thus, it would have survived at least several decades longer and would have probably looked like China today (free-market dictatorship). Which goes back to my point--everything depended on who was the Soviet leader during this time. Who was the U.S. President back then made very little difference in whether the U.S.S.R. would collapse or not. Finally, if JFK or Nixon would have told Khrushchev/Brezhnev to tear down the Berlin Wall, you think the U.S.S.R. would have just tore it down? No sir.
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Roemerista
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 11:35:14 AM »

You do realize that Reagan's foreign policy was a bit more than "tear down this wall" right?
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Bo
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 01:02:47 PM »

You do realize that Reagan's foreign policy was a bit more than "tear down this wall" right?

I know that, but I also know that Reagan's foreign policy was a very minor factor, if any, in the collapse of the U.S.S.R.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2010, 01:15:14 PM »

You do realize that Reagan's foreign policy was a bit more than "tear down this wall" right?

Indeed. He also sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq.
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Bo
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2010, 01:20:54 PM »

I see "planned economy" isn't on the list.  I suppose Gorby out of the sh**tty options listed, but he was just in control of the timing of it....the collapse was inevitable.

Actually, Soviet collapse was not inevitable. A different leader could have just liberalized the Soviet economy without giving the Soviet people more political freedoms. Thus the U.S.S.R. would have been similar to China today (a capitalist dictatorship) and would have survived and thrived for at least several more decades.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2010, 02:23:58 PM »

Karl Marx, really.

But out of the two options, Gorbachev. Suggesting Reagan is downright silly.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 03:06:48 PM »

I see "planned economy" isn't on the list.  I suppose Gorby out of the sh**tty options listed, but he was just in control of the timing of it....the collapse was inevitable.

Actually, Soviet collapse was not inevitable. A different leader could have just liberalized the Soviet economy without giving the Soviet people more political freedoms. Thus the U.S.S.R. would have been similar to China today (a capitalist dictatorship) and would have survived and thrived for at least several more decades.

Of course, a major difference is that only 51% of the Soviet population were ethnic Russians, while China is made up of 92% Han Chinese.

Holding the PRC together is far easier.
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Bo
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 03:23:18 PM »

I see "planned economy" isn't on the list.  I suppose Gorby out of the sh**tty options listed, but he was just in control of the timing of it....the collapse was inevitable.

Actually, Soviet collapse was not inevitable. A different leader could have just liberalized the Soviet economy without giving the Soviet people more political freedoms. Thus the U.S.S.R. would have been similar to China today (a capitalist dictatorship) and would have survived and thrived for at least several more decades.

Of course, a major difference is that only 51% of the Soviet population were ethnic Russians, while China is made up of 92% Han Chinese.

Holding the PRC together is far easier.

However, about 70% of the Soviet population was made up of Slavs. That is a pretty large majority.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 03:37:36 PM »
« Edited: July 14, 2010, 03:39:40 PM by Old Europe »

However, about 70% of the Soviet population was made up of Slavs. That is a pretty large majority.

And almost 90% of the population of Yugoslavia was made up of Slavs...

Those were still distinct ethnicites/nationalities though.

The PRC on the other hand has one large distinct ethnicity.
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Bo
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 03:40:16 PM »

However, about 70% of the Soviet population was made up of Slavs. That is a pretty large majority.

And almost 90% of the population of Yugoslavia were made up of Slavs...

Those were still distinct ethnicites/nationalities though.

Still, Russians, Ukrainians, and Belorussians have the same religion (Eastern Orthodox), while Croats, Serbs, and Bosniaks have different religions.
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dead0man
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2010, 12:41:57 AM »

I see "planned economy" isn't on the list.  I suppose Gorby out of the sh**tty options listed, but he was just in control of the timing of it....the collapse was inevitable.

Actually, Soviet collapse was not inevitable. A different leader could have just liberalized the Soviet economy without giving the Soviet people more political freedoms. Thus the U.S.S.R. would have been similar to China today (a capitalist dictatorship) and would have survived and thrived for at least several more decades.
Which is why I said "inevitable".
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cpeeks
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2010, 10:36:46 PM »

The soviet union was bound to collapse in 1941 hitler referred to it as a rotting structure and he was right.
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Derek
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2010, 12:52:55 AM »

The soviet union was bound to collapse in 1941 hitler referred to it as a rotting structure and he was right.

Yes socialism was the cause of the collapse because it does not produce enough wealth to keep up with needs and demands. Let that be a lesson to us now.
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Bo
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 01:58:37 PM »

The soviet union was bound to collapse in 1941 hitler referred to it as a rotting structure and he was right.

Yes socialism was the cause of the collapse because it does not produce enough wealth to keep up with needs and demands. Let that be a lesson to us now.

So what does Reagan have to do with that?
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cpeeks
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2010, 04:11:26 PM »

i dont think reagan had really anything to do with it, it was gonna collapse anyway.
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Derek
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2010, 09:50:44 PM »

The soviet union was bound to collapse in 1941 hitler referred to it as a rotting structure and he was right.

Yes socialism was the cause of the collapse because it does not produce enough wealth to keep up with needs and demands. Let that be a lesson to us now.

So what does Reagan have to do with that?

Just the simple fact of cutting taxes to grow the economy. The Soviets collapsed sooner than they would have because they didn't have what it took to compete with us economically.
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