Do you miss him yet?

[Phony Moderate]

Yes.

[doktorb]

The House of Commons certainly does. "Macavity" has been largely absent from doing any work as an MP, and yet is still being paid for it.

So after dragging the UK into the longest, deepest recession in modern times, spending money like water, borroiwng millions to pay back already substantial debt, and selling gold for cheap, he is now pocketing his wages without bothering to turn up to the Commons.

Either do your job, Brown, or resign.

He was a disgrace as a Chancellor, a largely useless Prime Minister, and now a ghost MP. Pathetic.

Miss him? Not at all, not ever.

[You kip if you want to...]

I should think my answer would be obvious.

[k-onmmunist]

Yes. Please come back. The Tories are already ruining the country with their insane classism.

[Democratic Hawk]

So after dragging the UK into the longest, deepest recession in modern times, spending money like water, borroiwng millions to pay back already substantial debt, and selling gold for cheap, he is now pocketing his wages without bothering to turn up to the Commons.

So were it not for a Labour government then the UK would not have gone into recession? I somehow very much doubt that given that the other lot would have rode the neoliberal merry-go-round every bit as much as Labour. It marked a crisis of laissez-faire

So what? We had a modest deficit pre-the Crash of 2008 and a much larger deficit as a consequence of it. Would you have preferred austerity in the face of the worst global financial crisis and economic downturn this side of the Great Depression?

You seem to be taking a very Anglocentric view of things. Surprising as it may seem the UK economy does not operate in some little bubble isolated from all around it

[Democratic Hawk]

Where's the hyperinflation for all of this spending, you like to carp on about? Where's the level of unemployment to match that of the 1981/82 and 1991/92 recessions?

We all know there is 'hidden' unemployment (they've all played the statistics game), while, under Labour, even allowing for the 'Great Recession', welfare spending as a % of GDP is less than when John Major left office

Nobody should be 'existing' on benefits, in the 21st century

[k-onmmunist]

I like how the Tories and Lib Dems re-write history to make it look like this recession is because of Labour. The economy is still that of Thatcher and Major, I think you'll find - It was Thatcher who thought it wise to destroy this country's economy by dismantling manufacturing and launching a war on the unions. Basically, cutting off her nose to spite her face.

She was the worst prime minister this country has ever seen and it is possible this country will never recover from what she wreaked. Major, Blair, Brown... have all just followed in her footsteps.

[Democratic Hawk]

For years the Right were raving about the success story that was the 'Celtic Tiger', which, today, has had its credit rating reduced; while Latvia, Estonia and Lithuana, too, have sky-high unemployment, despite they been heralded for their regressive, flat taxes

And this vision of an export-driven recovery ain't going anywhere if Germany succeeds in imposing deflation across Europe

The 'Crash' came, the market dictated that governments must act, now, the bond market seems to be dictating austerity

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The House of Commons certainly does. "Macavity" has been largely absent from doing any work as an MP, and yet is still being paid for it.

So after dragging the UK into the longest, deepest recession in modern times, spending money like water, borroiwng millions to pay back already substantial debt, and selling gold for cheap, he is now pocketing his wages without bothering to turn up to the Commons.

Either do your job, Brown, or resign.

He was a disgrace as a Chancellor, a largely useless Prime Minister, and now a ghost MP. Pathetic.

Miss him? Not at all, not ever.

First of all, recession was global and telling Brown "dragged into" it is sensless

Second of all, we're talking about the European leader who did the most in response to this

[k-onmmunist]

The age of free market neoliberalism is over, hopefully. It didn't work in the 19th century and it hasn't worked now. Time to do something different.

[Democratic Hawk]

I like how the Tories and Lib Dems re-write history to make it look like this recession is because of Labour. The economy is still that of Thatcher and Major, I think you'll find - It was Thatcher who thought it wise to destroy this country's economy by dismantling manufacturing and launching a war on the unions. Basically, cutting off her nose to spite her face.

She was the worst prime minister this country has ever seen and it is possible this country will never recover from what she wreaked. Major, Blair, Brown... have all just followed in her footsteps.

I'd say in Labour's case, of course, it's been neoliberalism but with a more social touch, hence, investment in public services

Cameron can bang on about this so-called 'broken society' - and that is an affront to any man and women giving their own time to either community or voluntary work – and if he ever crossed my path, I'd be telling him a few home truths. And I promise that no-one would wanna miss that. And for him to say “We're all in this together” … wow … I wouldn't be betting the house on that

I agree with IDS when he says that work is the road out of poverty – the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s were testament to that then we got the Blessed Margaret, who was the Founding Mother of Mass Welfare Dependency in this country, and by Cameron's own admission, during his interview with Jeremy Paxman, the Thatcher governments, willingly, tolerated an historical leap in poverty (and ain't that the truth). Can we expect the same?

My grandmother for much of her widowed life actually paid some rent for her council house, only to find her 'existing' to the point that she paid – water rates!

I can see how Housing Benefit is a trap but who was it abolished rent controls? The private rental sector has just been a bloody racket

And I'll maintain until my dying day that the Anglo-American cultural emphasis on home ownership is very much a factor at the heart of the 'Crash'. And maybe were it not for decling standards of living, in the US, (so much for trickle-down!), perhaps just perhaps there would not have been the level of defaults that triggered a loss of confidence in the US subprime market … and that, as we all know, ended in near catastrophe

I'm wondering if austerity is more a means to enable the Conservatives to worship at the Altar of Supply-Side!

I'm all for cutting Corporation Tax, but where's the guarantee that British people will get the jobs they need in the private sector?

Why doesn't this government just offer us £50,000 to go? What's our chances of getting a decent job (by their standards) in one of our call centres in India?

[Democratic Hawk]

I'm no protectionist advocating that the West raise its gates and slap tariffs on imports but, I'd say, in what little campaigning I was able to go (I've been back on my own merry-go-round again ), there is a lot of frustration with outsourcing and offshoring

[k-onmmunist]

I'm no protectionist advocating that the West raise its gates and slap tariffs on imports

Well I am

[doktorb]

The House of Commons certainly does. "Macavity" has been largely absent from doing any work as an MP, and yet is still being paid for it.

So after dragging the UK into the longest, deepest recession in modern times, spending money like water, borroiwng millions to pay back already substantial debt, and selling gold for cheap, he is now pocketing his wages without bothering to turn up to the Commons.

Either do your job, Brown, or resign.

He was a disgrace as a Chancellor, a largely useless Prime Minister, and now a ghost MP. Pathetic.

Miss him? Not at all, not ever.

First of all, recession was global and telling Brown "dragged into" it is sensless

Second of all, we're talking about the European leader who did the most in response to this

LOL! Oh who is re-writing history now?

Brown WAS the cause of the recession in the UK, and you know that "the world economic crisis" was only a small part of the problem. Had he not continued the de-regulation of the banking sector and enjoyed throwing money into the public sector, borrowing millions to pay back debt, running scared of "cost cutting" like all rabid lefties, the UK would be in a much healithier state today.

The Coalition are often critisiced for doing things for  ideological reasons. It's amusing that somehow parties following their principlies is somehow unique! Better that than Labour screwing over their w/c supporters in the way they did for 13 years.

Miss Brown? No. He ruined the nation's economy and we will live with his consequences for years to come.

[Democratic Hawk]

Would you have prefered austerity in the wake of the 'Crash of 2008'? As for 'Crash of 2008' the trigger for that was a loss of confidence in the US subprime market, the consequences of which, we all know, were near catastrophic

The ONS has reported, today, that total government debt is now equivalent to 63.9% of the UK's annual economic output. For obvious reasons, substantially, higher than it stood pre-the 'Crash', unless of course, you've been living in the Land of Nod. And government debt is nothing new to this Labour government, so you can get off your high horse on that one. Most major Western capitalist economies have high public debt to GDP ratios

As for "cost cutting", what is that? Right-wing codespeak for the erosion of pay and working conditions? As for Brown being a rabid “lefty”, yeah right

[minionofmidas]

Damn, I'm deluded. Somehow I saw the top of the picture and somehow got it in my mind that that's Tony Blair. Of course I voted no. Batsh!t crazy LINO can go (non-fatally) hang himself for all I care.
Then I scrolled down, and oh behold it's working class hero inoffensive bureaucrat Gordon Brown. So take one from the no's, add to the aye's, if with reservations...

EDIT: Lol, I meant s in those [ ]s, not i...

[You kip if you want to...]

I bet Nick "15%" Clegg misses him.

[k-onmmunist]

The House of Commons certainly does. "Macavity" has been largely absent from doing any work as an MP, and yet is still being paid for it.

So after dragging the UK into the longest, deepest recession in modern times, spending money like water, borroiwng millions to pay back already substantial debt, and selling gold for cheap, he is now pocketing his wages without bothering to turn up to the Commons.

Either do your job, Brown, or resign.

He was a disgrace as a Chancellor, a largely useless Prime Minister, and now a ghost MP. Pathetic.

Miss him? Not at all, not ever.

First of all, recession was global and telling Brown "dragged into" it is sensless

Second of all, we're talking about the European leader who did the most in response to this

LOL! Oh who is re-writing history now?

Brown WAS the cause of the recession in the UK, and you know that "the world economic crisis" was only a small part of the problem. Had he not continued the de-regulation of the banking sector and enjoyed throwing money into the public sector, borrowing millions to pay back debt, running scared of "cost cutting" like all rabid lefties, the UK would be in a much healithier state today.

The Coalition are often critisiced for doing things for  ideological reasons. It's amusing that somehow parties following their principlies is somehow unique! Better that than Labour screwing over their w/c supporters in the way they did for 13 years.

Miss Brown? No. He ruined the nation's economy and we will live with his consequences for years to come.

But the answer isn't costcutting for Christ's sake, the answer is to increase spending to re-stimulate the economy. Obviously the banks need regulation brought upon them, but this is now a crisis in industry and services as much as one in the banks.

As for this country's economy being ruined, you can thank the Tories for that.

'On yer bike', anyone?

[doktorb]

"On your bike" was an anecdote, not an order, as you well know.

But would you prefer "on your bike" or "here's more welfare the nation can't afford" ?

[k-onmmunist]

"On your bike" was an anecdote, not an order, as you well know.

But would you prefer "on your bike" or "here's more welfare the nation can't afford" ?

I know, my point was, the ConDems don't care about the poor and the unemployed.

The way to get people off welfare is to provide them with jobs, which can be done by nationalizing and rebuilding all manufacturing.

[You kip if you want to...]

"On your bike" was an anecdote, not an order, as you well know.

But would you prefer "on your bike" or "here's more welfare the nation can't afford" ?

I know, my point was, the ConDems don't care about the poor and the unemployed.

The way to get people off welfare is to provide them with jobs, which can be done by nationalizing and rebuilding all manufacturing.

True, but it's no good trying to tell a ConDem that. It's like talking to a brick wall.

[afleitch]

[doktorb]

"On your bike" was an anecdote, not an order, as you well know.

But would you prefer "on your bike" or "here's more welfare the nation can't afford" ?

I know, my point was, the ConDems don't care about the poor and the unemployed.

The way to get people off welfare is to provide them with jobs, which can be done by nationalizing and rebuilding all manufacturing.

True, but it's no good trying to tell a ConDem that. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Hang on a minute, which party made welfare MORE AFFORDABLE than part time work? The welfare bill has ballooned under Labour, giving those who wanted to work less incentive to do so (remember, a part-time wage could have been seriously effected by the scrapping of the 10p tax rate BY LABOUR)

Don't give me any of this rubbish about Labour being somehow good for workers and "teh eveil Tories" anything but.  Gordon Brown was a disaster for the low paid and the unemployed, the ConDem Coalition , of which I am a proud supporter, is doing all it can to reverse the mess.

[afleitch]

Doktorb, naturally I agree with you. However threads like these are best left as a forum for Labour apologists to re-inforce themselves Best leave them to it!