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| | |-+  Which of these is most likely true regarding the spread of Islam in South Asia?
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Poll
Question: Answer as many as you like
The bulk of Muslims are descendants of migrants from the Iranian plateau or Arabs.   -1 (1.8%)
Muslims sought conversion through jihad. Forced conversions   -12 (21.1%)
Conversions occurred for non-religious reasons of pragmatism and patronage such as social mobility among the Muslim ruling elite or for relief from taxes.   -11 (19.3%)
Conversion was a result of the actions of Sunni Sufi saints and involved a genuine change of heart.   -9 (15.8%)
Conversion came from Buddhists and the en masse conversions of lower castes for social liberation and as a rejection of the oppressive Hindu caste strictures.   -8 (14%)
. A combination, initially made under duress followed by a genuine change of heart.   -8 (14%)
As a socio-cultural process of diffusion and integration over an extended period of time into the sphere of the dominant Muslim civilization and global polity at large. Like a more peacful version of #1.   -8 (14%)
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Total Voters: 13

Author Topic: Which of these is most likely true regarding the spread of Islam in South Asia?  (Read 1438 times)
phk
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« on: July 20, 2010, 07:34:04 pm »
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Choose whatever you like.
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Хahar
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 07:35:24 pm »
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All of the above.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 03:06:51 pm »
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Combo of all except option 1. 
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 03:18:36 pm »
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2-7 were all true at various times throughout history.
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dead0man
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 06:22:26 am »
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Isn't this a "what color is the sky" kind of a poll?  There is a correct, factual answer for this question.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Хahar
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 12:17:10 pm »
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Isn't this a "what color is the sky" kind of a poll?  There is a correct, factual answer for this question.

And which one is that?
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
Gustaf
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2010, 04:49:38 am »

Isn't this a "what color is the sky" kind of a poll?  There is a correct, factual answer for this question.

And which one is that?

The sky changes colour from day to night! Tongue
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 10:22:47 am »
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3, 4, 6.

I've never heard of an Arabian fleet conquering  the Philippines. 

I basically think that for the last 2,000 years, monotheism has been on the rise. 
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J. J.

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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 11:25:22 am »
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It should be noted that before Islam (and to a greatly reduced extent after) there was a soup of related sects (Nestorian Christianity, monophysite Christianity, Manicheanism, Mandaeanism, Zoroastrianism, etc..) which flung themselves across the globe and paved the way for Islam's spread.  To the objective eye of the Chinese Emperor, all of these sects were one ("the Persian religion"), and they were vigorously persecuted there to maintain traditional Chinese homogeneity.  Other peoples without a strongly rooted high Culture obviously found the Persian religion irrestistible.

Incidentally, I recently discovered that I'd been pronouncing Monophysite Christianity incorrectly.

I hate when you see a word a ton in print but have never heard it spoken.
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Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 03:36:31 pm »
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3, 4, 6.

I've never heard of an Arabian fleet conquering  the Philippines. 

I basically think that for the last 2,000 years, monotheism has been on the rise. 

I think forced conversions also happened a lot, especially in the western part of South Asia (modern day Pakistan). Of course there was more to the spread of Islam than just that. I say a combination of 2,3,4 and 5. 

As for #5, low caste Hindus might have converted to Islam to escape the caste system, but they could never totally escape it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims

Buddhists also converted to Islam in large numbers, especially in east Bengal IIRC.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 03:42:36 pm by sbane »Logged
Bo
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 05:25:33 pm »
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All except 1.
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phk
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2010, 01:23:21 am »
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All except 1.

#2 would be an inaccurate depiction.  Islam really entered Southeast Asia through traders and merchants, not warlords.

Some Sultanates may have gone to war with non-Islamic kingdoms, but I'm not really familiar with any mass-conversations by the sword.

#7 is the most true imo.  "As a socio-cultural process of diffusion and integration over an extended period of time into the sphere of the dominant Muslim civilization and global polity at large. Like a more peacful version of #1."

Anyone mentioning "spheres" and "polities" knows something about pre-modern Southeast Asia.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala_(Southeast_Asian_history)



Huh

This is about South Asia (modern-day Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) not Southeast Asia.
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Lunar
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2010, 07:19:41 am »
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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this is real
kashifsakhan
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2010, 04:46:24 am »
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none of the above
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Sbane
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 09:17:28 pm »
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none of the above

Elaborate.
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Torie
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 09:24:20 pm »
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In Malaysia and Indonesia, it was due to the Koran being a rather useful uniform commercial code, that gave trade advantages to the Sultans, and because the Portuguese were such vicious predatory religious fanatics, while the Muslims just wanted to make money. How times have changed. In India, as I understand it, many of the Muslims were former Hindu untouchables, that decided to opt out of a religion were they were treated like sh**t. Read my friend Bill Bernstein's book on the history of trade, and you can find out all about this stuff. I read the whole book in one sitting. I could not put it down.
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phk
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 02:38:34 am »
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In Malaysia and Indonesia, it was due to the Koran being a rather useful uniform commercial code, that gave trade advantages to the Sultans, and because the Portuguese were such vicious predatory religious fanatics, while the Muslims just wanted to make money. How times have changed. In India, as I understand it, many of the Muslims were former Hindu untouchables, that decided to opt out of a religion were they were treated like sh**t. Read my friend Bill Bernstein's book on the history of trade, and you can find out all about this stuff. I read the whole book in one sitting. I could not put it down.

You know Bernstein?
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Torie
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 11:19:20 am »
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In Malaysia and Indonesia, it was due to the Koran being a rather useful uniform commercial code, that gave trade advantages to the Sultans, and because the Portuguese were such vicious predatory religious fanatics, while the Muslims just wanted to make money. How times have changed. In India, as I understand it, many of the Muslims were former Hindu untouchables, that decided to opt out of a religion were they were treated like sh**t. Read my friend Bill Bernstein's book on the history of trade, and you can find out all about this stuff. I read the whole book in one sitting. I could not put it down.

You know Bernstein?

Yes. I actually "met" him on the internet, when he was a neurologist full time.  Since then, he has become a money manager, written articles, been quoted often in the WSJ, and authored several books, a couple of which I helped edit and comment upon in a modest way. We also did quite a bit of financial research together, using the data base which French of Fama/French fame, gave Bill back in the 1990's, including in particular expected equity permia, and the issue of whether or not the value premia exists, and if so, whether additional risk attends it, and/or whether it is due to "irrational" behavior ala the Richard Thaler model. We also "invented" "Dunn's Law" together (Bill decided that "Dunn's Law" sounded catchier than "Bernstein's Law.")  Tongue

I am going to see him again this September in Philadelphia at the Boglehead conclave that we have every couple of years in various places around the country.

I love the internet. Smiley
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 11:28:40 am by Torie »Logged
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