An American absurd

[MODU]

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

hahaha . . . I am so sorry.  I forgot you with the fountain of untapped knowledge on this forum.  I bow before your great intelligence.  *dies laughin*  Thanks for proving my point. 

(You guys should have read all the soapbox preaching I was writing and deleting before this post.  I think you might have enjoyed reading me flaming on her.)

[J-Mann]

Why are they misinformed?

Oh, right.  Because they don't agree with you.

So does that mean I think you're misinformed, Shira?  Actually, it doesn't.  I can disagree with you about any number of issues and still respect your right to have them and your intellect for choosing your side. 

Too many Democrats have an inability to do the same.  If someone disagrees, they're "misinformed" or they've been "misled".  I don't think you understand how condescending that is. 

I'll post this again, since Shira is ignoring it:

Why are they (Red Staters) misinformed?

Oh, right.  Because they don't agree with you.

So does that mean I think you're misinformed, Shira?  Actually, it doesn't.  I can disagree with you about any number of issues and still respect your right to have them and your intellect for choosing your side. 

Too many Democrats have an inability to do the same.  If someone disagrees, they're "misinformed" or they've been "misled".  I don't think you understand how condescending that is.

[J. J.]

Tell me honestly, do you know, for example, that life expectancy in the US is by 4 years shorter than in Japan, by 3 years shorter than in Australia and Sweden, by 1.5 years shorter than in Germany and by 1 year shorter than in the UK ?
In general, life expectancy in the US is one of the shortest among developed countries, including a “developed” country like Jordan.

It seems to me that people like you don’t really understand the severity of these stats.

It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower. 

Yet another Shira statistical tangent in an attempt to prove some point in a losing argument.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is precisely this attitude that illustrates the problem with the Left.  The don't understand how people can disagree with them. 

They also are incapable of explaining their own positions.  I while back, I asked Shira why she considers life expectancy to be so important; she has yet to answer.

[Shira]

Shira, I wonder how often you get out and talk to us red-staters or the common, uninsured, uneducated man on the street?  Do you?  I do.  They're better informed than you might think, and they actually know what they stand for.  They probably couldn't defend themselves in a debate against some high-minded liberal intellectual, but that's not the point.  Their vote is their own, and they aren't near as dumb as you like to think they are.

You have offended me - and thus many fellow Kansans - to the Nth degree.

Tell me honestly, do you know, for example, that life expectancy in the US is by 4 years shorter than in Japan, by 3 years shorter than in Australia and Sweden, by 1.5 years shorter than in Germany and by 1 year shorter than in the UK ?
In general, life expectancy in the US is one of the shortest among developed countries, including a “developed” country like Jordan.

It seems to me that people like you don’t really understand the severity of these stats.

It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower. 

Yet another Shira statistical tangent in an attempt to prove some point in a losing argument.

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

How exactly are you an expert on the subject?

You don't have to be an expert. Simply read the numbers.
You can spin it and say that it has nothing to do with the healthcare system, but it does.

[Shira]

How are lower income people going to take an economic hit from George Bush?

For example, by denying them a reasonable helthcare system, by reducing the budgets to their schools and more and more items.

[patrick1]

This argument again.  Americans have a bad diet, are fatter and have a much higher incidence of heart disease.  All of these things lead to early deaths and an imbalance in the numbers.

[Shira]

Why are they misinformed?

How would you title people who sincerily believe that Sadam is responsible for 9/11?

"misinformed" is a very moderate title in this case.

[J-Mann]

Why are they misinformed?

How would you title people who sincerily believe that Sadam is responsible for 9/11?

"misinformed" is a very moderate title in this case.

You are stereotyping horribly.  But it's ok for Dems to do that, right?

[Shira]

Tell me honestly, do you know, for example, that life expectancy in the US is by 4 years shorter than in Japan, by 3 years shorter than in Australia and Sweden, by 1.5 years shorter than in Germany and by 1 year shorter than in the UK ?
In general, life expectancy in the US is one of the shortest among developed countries, including a “developed” country like Jordan.

It seems to me that people like you don’t really understand the severity of these stats.

It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower. 

Yet another Shira statistical tangent in an attempt to prove some point in a losing argument.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is precisely this attitude that illustrates the problem with the Left.  The don't understand how people can disagree with them. 

They also are incapable of explaining their own positions.  I while back, I asked Shira why she considers life expectancy to be so important; she has yet to answer.

The following piece has nothing to do with disagreeing with my views. It is professionally incorrect.

"It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower." 

[Shira]

Why are they misinformed?

How would you title people who sincerily believe that Sadam is responsible for 9/11?

"misinformed" is a very moderate title in this case.

You are stereotyping horribly.  But it's ok for Dems to do that, right?

How would you suggest to title these people?

[A18]

I have a suggestion. How about stupid, Shira?

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs, or not understanding economics worth a damn, or not knowing the stock market crashed before Bush took office, or not realizing that taxing corporations adds to the price of the products you buy.

Both sides have stupid voters.

How are lower income people going to take an economic hit from George Bush?

For example, by denying them a reasonable helthcare system, by reducing the budgets to their schools and more and more items.

Education spending has skyrocketed under Bush. Maybe you should check your facts before you call other people "misinformed."

No one wants the big government health care system. Even most Democrats don't want it.

[J-Mann]

How are lower income people going to take an economic hit from George Bush?

For example, by denying them a reasonable helthcare system, by reducing the budgets to their schools and more and more items.

Reasonable healthcare system; ie: nationalized health care.  When France's social sevice system collapses in a couple of years, you'll rethink the merits of such systems.

[J-Mann]

Why are they misinformed?

How would you title people who sincerily believe that Sadam is responsible for 9/11?

"misinformed" is a very moderate title in this case.

You are stereotyping horribly.  But it's ok for Dems to do that, right?

How would you suggest to title these people?

I don't think any title is necessary.  We didn't vote solely on an Iraq-al Qaeda connection.  Check your facts; we voted more on cultural issues, which I wouldn't expect you to UNDERSTAND or RESPECT.  You have shown no respect for differing points of view.  But go ahead; call these people stupid, ignorant, misled, uninformed - it just shows your true colors and how much you truly disrespect the First Amendment.

[Shira]

I have a suggestion. How about stupid, Shira?

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs, or not understanding economics worth a damn, or not knowing the stock market crashed before Bush took office, or not realizing that taxing corporations adds to the price of the products you buy.

Both sides have stupid voters.

According to your definition, the majority of Bush's voters are stupid

[A18]

Right. And so are the majority of Kerry's.

[J. J.]

Tell me honestly, do you know, for example, that life expectancy in the US is by 4 years shorter than in Japan, by 3 years shorter than in Australia and Sweden, by 1.5 years shorter than in Germany and by 1 year shorter than in the UK ?
In general, life expectancy in the US is one of the shortest among developed countries, including a “developed” country like Jordan.

It seems to me that people like you don’t really understand the severity of these stats.

It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower. 

Yet another Shira statistical tangent in an attempt to prove some point in a losing argument.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is precisely this attitude that illustrates the problem with the Left.  The don't understand how people can disagree with them. 

They also are incapable of explaining their own positions.  I while back, I asked Shira why she considers life expectancy to be so important; she has yet to answer.

The following piece has nothing to do with disagreeing with my views. It is professionally incorrect.

"It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower." 

Shira, I asked you a question and you have failed to answer it.  I am asking you why you think life expectency is important.  Why is it so impportant.

[Shira]

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs

As to Bush and the WMD.

Either
1 - Bush really believed in it
Or
2 - He knew that there is no WMD, but he badly wanted to invade Iraq for "other reasons".
Both of the above are very bad.

I personally tend to accept the second one.

[J-Mann]

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs

As to Bush and the WMD.

Either
1 - Bush really believed in it
Or
2 - He knew that there is no WMD, but he badly wanted to invade Iraq for "other reasons".
Both of the above are very bad.

I personally tend to accept the second one.

Bush did believe it, as did his administration, Britain, France, and the UN...oh, AND the American people.  You have intelligence failure to thank for that, not Bush.  Study the structure of our intelligence institutions, Shira, and you'll understand how something like that can happen.

[A18]

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs

As to Bush and the WMD.

Either
1 - Bush really believed in it
Or
2 - He knew that there is no WMD, but he badly wanted to invade Iraq for "other reasons".
Both of the above are very bad.

I personally tend to accept the second one.

Bush believed it. So did France, the UN, Russia, and every intelligence agency on the face of the planet.

I've responded to trash like this a million times, while everyone ignores a decade of history.

Now, someone explain this to me. Why would Bush feel like proving himself wrong?[/b]

[John Dibble]

Shira, I wonder how often you get out and talk to us red-staters or the common, uninsured, uneducated man on the street?  Do you?  I do.  They're better informed than you might think, and they actually know what they stand for.  They probably couldn't defend themselves in a debate against some high-minded liberal intellectual, but that's not the point.  Their vote is their own, and they aren't near as dumb as you like to think they are.

You have offended me - and thus many fellow Kansans - to the Nth degree.

Tell me honestly, do you know, for example, that life expectancy in the US is by 4 years shorter than in Japan, by 3 years shorter than in Australia and Sweden, by 1.5 years shorter than in Germany and by 1 year shorter than in the UK ?
In general, life expectancy in the US is one of the shortest among developed countries, including a “developed” country like Jordan.

It seems to me that people like you don’t really understand the severity of these stats.

It's the law of averages, Shira.  We have more people than those places combined, so of course our averages are going to be lower. 

Yet another Shira statistical tangent in an attempt to prove some point in a losing argument.

I am very sorry to say, but  it seems that you  don't understand what you are talking about.

How exactly are you an expert on the subject?

You don't have to be an expert. Simply read the numbers.
You can spin it and say that it has nothing to do with the healthcare system, but it does.

I have never spinned it to say it has NOTHING to do with it, but you spin it to make it as if it has EVERYTHING to do with it. Climate, eating habits, exercise habits, life outlook, stress, and various other things have a lot to do with life expectancy as well. Stop pretending as if suddenly having national health care will make our life expectancies rocket.

[A18]

Next time you see an earthquake in the news, it's because of our health care system. Or so says Shira.

[MODU]

But to repeat myself: it's no more stupid than thinking Bush lied about WMDs

As to Bush and the WMD.

Either
1 - Bush really believed in it
Or
2 - He knew that there is no WMD, but he badly wanted to invade Iraq for "other reasons".
Both of the above are very bad.

I personally tend to accept the second one.

hahaha . . . just keep talking, Shira.  You're proving mine (and many others) point with each word you type. 

[J. J.]

Shira, are you blond?

[opebo]

Opebo, I'm sorry to say this, but I have to say it - you've become a demagogue. Worse yet you are a demagogue that believes his own propaganda, making you blind to reason. You have apparently lost your ability to objectively think about the problem - you vastly overgeneralize and you demonize, you are hateful and bitter. You are no better than the extreme religious types you preach against for those reasons, and for those reasons I cannot respect you anymore. Sorry, but I just can't respect a shrieking moonbat that froths at the mouth.

Dibble, I'm afraid the situation is quite desperate.  My reaction to anyone who wants to control me and take away my freedoms is, you are correct, somewhat emotional.  I don't apologize for that.  We all have a right to be disgusted by others if that's our genuine reaction.  Certainly they feel no need to apologize for their reaction to people like myself.

I admit I have a tendency to generalize, but that's a natural human reaction - if you are threatened by a group, it is a good survival strategy to be wary of all members of that group, even if not every single one of them is dangerous.  In this case however generalization is completely reasonable, because all religions require the act of faith, and it is within this act that the abandoment of reason and the potential for embrace of intolerance has genesis.  The minds of the religious are different, and inherently less good in my personal and completely subjective heirarchy of value. 

The thing that I think should alarm everyone outside of their cabal is that they do not recognize the subjectivity of their own 'values'.  This is not demonization, it is the nature of religion. 

I'm a little concerned that you feel the need to critique my position, but do not do the same to the many Christian Conservatives on the board who routinely display bigotry towards others, particularly homosexuals.  Am I to be held to a higher standard because I don't have the absurd excuse of 'faith' for my judgements of others?

[J. J.]

Most ideologies require the same "abandonment." 

Okay, Bopeepo, how are these religious people trying to take away your freedom?