As residents flee the new police state, Arizona's economy gets even worse

[Sbane]

So the illegals are packing their stuff and moving away?

Goody then!

Right.  muon2, wasn't it written and shown in polling that legal mexicans and other latinos support this law overwhelmingly?   Or was I reading an opinion piece?

Yeah...I don't think so. They may be fine with sending a lot of troops to the border, but I doubt they would be fine with racial profiling against them. I know you can't supposedly racially profile in the law, but who is that going to stop? Cops could just make up a myriad of reasons why they stopped someone if asked about it later.

There have been some polls that showed interesting results though. There was surprisingly high amount of support for SB 1070 among hispanics but it was certainly not overwhelming. Actually there was more opposition than support, but the amount of support was surprising. I just can't imagine why someone would be fine with a law that aids in profiling against them.

Similar case happened in Prince William County,VA as well. I don't think these people were thrilled by any such laws. Interestingly PW county had one of the biggest swings towards Obama.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Dw1ioGPGY&NR=1

[Dgov]

I just can't imagine why someone would be fine with a law that aids in profiling against them.

Well, maybe, just maybe, they recognize the seriousness of the problem in Arizona?  Legal Hispanic immigrants are the ones paying the biggest price for illegal immigration in higher crime rates.  Phoenix isn't the kidnapping capital of the US because of the heat after all.

[phk]

Bear in mind, Hispanic isn't necessarily a race and I wouldn't be surprised if White Hispanics don't care much for Native American Hispanics being profiled.

[Verily]

Bear in mind, Hispanic isn't necessarily a race and I wouldn't be surprised if White Hispanics don't care much for Native American Hispanics being profiled.

There are very few "white Hispanics" in Arizona. The only area of the SW that has a lot is New Mexico (edit: and Colorado in the south, bordering NM). "White Hispanics" are mostly a phenomenon of Caribbean and South American immigration, not Central American and Mexican immigration.

[Vepres]

So the illegals are packing their stuff and moving away?

Goody then!

Right.  muon2, wasn't it written and shown in polling that legal mexicans and other latinos support this law overwhelmingly?   Or was I reading an opinion piece?

I'd like to see one among Hispanics born in the United States.

[Sbane]

I just can't imagine why someone would be fine with a law that aids in profiling against them.

Well, maybe, just maybe, they recognize the seriousness of the problem in Arizona?  Legal Hispanic immigrants are the ones paying the biggest price for illegal immigration in higher crime rates.  Phoenix isn't the kidnapping capital of the US because of the heat after all.

Just because you recognize the problem, doesn't mean you a support a poorly thought out xenophobic legislation. The only place we can stop the problem is at the border. What is really needed is man power at the borders, and even more crucially, equipment like helicopters and night vision cameras. The AZ desert is composed of lowlands and high ranges flanking those basins. These mountains don't have roads going into them, just hiking trails. And the mafia/coyotes exploit this by sending people to camp up there, and give a real time update on the location of border patrol in the basin below. These are the problems that need to be solved, instead of kicking out hardworking illegals who don't cause crime and harassing legal residents.

BTW, why are you so sure Phoenix is the kidnapping capital due to illegal residents and not some other reason? If illegals caused all crime, Orange County would be a hellhole (you won't believe how many transient hispanics live in that county). IMHO, a lot of these crimes are caused by the people transporting illegals, not the immigrants themselves. Thus the problem needs to be solved at the border, not the streets of Arizona.

[Хahar 🤔]

Orange County is a hellhole, but that's not the reason why.

[SPC]

Yeah protectionist measures (yeah that's right I'm calling nativist policies "protectionist", so sue me) usually have the effect of making the economy worse.
What I always found amazing though is how inconsistent a lot of these people are when they voice support for free trade yet support strongarm immigration legislation.....

Will this do for Arizona what Smoot-Hawley did for 1930s America?

You know, quoting the worst excesses of an otherwise sound policy isn't very constructive. Tariffs were very effective in the 19th century.

If the goal is to supress economic growth, than they were and are very successful. The effect is the same whether you're transporting goods or people across borders.

[Dgov]

Thus the problem needs to be solved at the border, not the streets of Arizona.

Um, you do realize that Arizona is ON the border right?  This law was directed more at giving the Police in Pinal county the ability to check immigration status on people they find at 3 AM "camped out" near the border than for traffic stops in Glendale.

The fact is that the Federal government has basically ignored the problem, and is seen (justly or not) of deliberately dragging their feet on the issue for political gain.  People will take drastic measures when they feel that people are playing politics with their safety.

[Brittain33]

One aspect of the AZ law seems to be overlooked. It was passed and signed after April 1, 2010. If it does gave an effect on the population, it is after the census count. Reapportionment and any required Hispanic-majority districts will be based on pre-SB1070 residents in AZ. The electoral results in 2012 may not match with the expectations from the census count.

I would anticipate the result to be Hispanic-majority districts returning Democrats with lower totals than they should have--we're more likely to have "rotten boroughs" than Republican upsets. But it all depends on how many people are actually leaving vs. how many were willing to answer the Census at the time, and to what extent the neighborhoods were politically competitive.

[Mjh]

So the illegals are packing their stuff and moving away?

Goody then!

Right.  muon2, wasn't it written and shown in polling that legal mexicans and other latinos support this law overwhelmingly?   Or was I reading an opinion piece?

Sorry mate, I don't know what you were reading, or what legal mexicans think about this law.

[Sbane]

Thus the problem needs to be solved at the border, not the streets of Arizona.

Um, you do realize that Arizona is ON the border right?  This law was directed more at giving the Police in Pinal county the ability to check immigration status on people they find at 3 AM "camped out" near the border than for traffic stops in Glendale.

I think this law is applicable in all jurisdictions of Arizona, not just the border areas.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

So the illegals are packing their stuff and moving away?

Goody then!

Right.  muon2, wasn't it written and shown in polling that legal mexicans and other latinos support this law overwhelmingly?   Or was I reading an opinion piece?

Sorry mate, I don't know what you were reading, or what legal mexicans think about this law.

I googled it (of course) and I guess it was only GOP hispanics agreed with the law.  No surprise there.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Illegals have been leaving Arizona for three years. About 100,000 have left out of 540,000 since 2007. This bill will only speed up if anything what has occured and will occur as a result of the housing collapse leaving thousands of day laborers, construction workers, and many other "low skilled" employees both illegal and legal out of work.

Also, Sbane, the border patrol has said that if you really want help them, hire more ICE officials and crackdown on the employers. That would be more help then adding a few thousand more border patrol. You can't stop it at the border, you need to have a strong interior enforcement operation to really get control of the problem as well as tight border security.

[Sbane]

Also, Sbane, the border patrol has said that if you really want help them, hire more ICE officials and crackdown on the employers. That would be more help then adding a few thousand more border patrol. You can't stop it at the border, you need to have a strong interior enforcement operation to really get control of the problem as well as tight border security.

Oh of course cracking down on employers is the best thing to do. But it's not as if either party is interested in doing it. Or at least they are using it as a political football. You only get the crackdown on employers if it's packaged with amnesty kind of deal. Republicans would probably like to add a guest worker program. Here's to hoping something gets done soon but it's unlikely anyone is going to touch comprehensive immigration reform in an election year.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Arizona Hotels Thriving Despite Boycotts Over Immigration Law
Published July 27, 2010
 
Arizona's tourism industry has a target on its back, but the widespread boycotts over the state's

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/27/arizona-hotels-thriving-despite-boycotts-immigration-law/

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Arizona Hotels Thriving Despite Boycotts Over Immigration Law
Published July 27, 2010
 
Arizona's tourism industry has a target on its back, but the widespread boycotts over the state's

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/27/arizona-hotels-thriving-despite-boycotts-immigration-law/

Going to Arizona in the summer is popular for Conventions because the rates are cheap.  Most groups won't care about the law but care about getting a good deal for attendees.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also, Sbane, the border patrol has said that if you really want help them, hire more ICE officials and crackdown on the employers. That would be more help then adding a few thousand more border patrol. You can't stop it at the border, you need to have a strong interior enforcement operation to really get control of the problem as well as tight border security.

Oh of course cracking down on employers is the best thing to do. But it's not as if either party is interested in doing it. Or at least they are using it as a political football. You only get the crackdown on employers if it's packaged with amnesty kind of deal. Republicans would probably like to add a guest worker program. Here's to hoping something gets done soon but it's unlikely anyone is going to touch comprehensive immigration reform in an election year.

It appears that 1) "We need more border patrol" and 2) "We need to crackdown on employers" have become an effective cover for Obama and co. to appear tough on the border while at the same time keeping Hispanics from revolting.

"We only get the crackdown on employers if it's packaged with amnesty kind of deal"
That is so full of lol. Any bill that includes amnesty will guarrentee that any enforcement mechanisms within will never be enforced. Within three years of the Reagan amnesty, many of these groups called for yet another amnesty, held protests, and raised hell whenever worksite enforcement was attempted.

Comprehensive immigration reform is dead. There are over 200 Reps who have signed a discharge petition on the Save Act and atleast 30 more who, support it publically were it to come to the floor, but Pelosi has managed to keep from signing the petition. This bill would pass with 250+ votes or more in the House. Compare that with Luis Guitierrez's bill supported by Obama, Pelosi and Reid. It has about 100 supporters. In the senate, the number of irreconciliable NO votes is growing as Lott, Bennet, Craig, Hagel, Bond, and Brownback have or will be replaced by likely no votes: Wicker, Lee, Risch, Johanns, Blunt, and Moran. If Rubio wins in FL, it will also join the list. Not to mention that Lincoln will be losing to Boozeman for sure. Kyl likely is never going to vote aye again (he voted no in 2006). Also the two Georgia Senators and the Tennessee Senators are unlikely to be bribed with a Guest Worker Program again (they actually abandoned the deal before the vote in 2007,anyway). Also Hutchinson wanted touchback provisions and she might have voted Aye but when she is gone, I think its likely to join the list of six above.

Issa made it clear on CBS this morning that Amnesty is a non starter with the GOP now and if Obama wants to make a deal with the GOP he will have to drop it. I think he speaks for most of the GOP House and Senate caucus in saying that.