92,000 damning documents

[doktorb]

"one of the biggest leaks in US military history ... a devastating portrait of the failing war in Afghanistan, revealing how coalition forces have killed hundreds of civilians in unreported incidents, Taliban attacks have soared and Nato commanders fear neighbouring Pakistan and Iran are fuelling the insurgency".

Hundreds of civilians including many women and children have been killed by coalition forces in several instances that were not previously revealed.

According to Der Spiegel, "the [leaked] documents clearly show that the Pakistani intelligence agency is the most important accomplice the Taliban has outside of Afghanistan.

The New York Times was especiallly alarmed by the level of collusion with the Taliban, having concluded that Pakistan “allows representatives of its spy service to meet directly with the Taliban in secret strategy sessions to organize networks of militant groups that fight against American soldiers in Afghanistan, and even hatch plots to assassinate Afghan leaders.

[doktorb]

Some of the specific details in the newspapers this morning are just too shocking for words - troops who were (or are!) too jittery and nervous shooting civilans which are more often than not covered up or "reported differently". Troops not aware if some or all communication is being traced by as many as half-a-dozen countries.

Other paragraphs just deserve quoting in full for other people to make up their own minds;

"Hundres of files detail the efforts of insurgents, who have no aircraft, to shoot down western warplanes. The war logs detail at least 10 near-misses by missiles  in four years against coalition aircraft, one while refuling at 11,000ft and another involving a suspected Stinger missile of the kind supplied by the CIA to Afghan rebels in the 1980s"

[doktorb]

I don't get what is so shocking. War is messy.  Always has been. Always will be.

It's not just "war is messy" that is so shocking. It is the amount of innocent deaths which were covered up. The number of Afghans killed with families "paid off". The hitherto unknown extent of Pakistani involvement in the border area. It's a disgraceful record of a costly, never ending war.

[doktorb]

Taken from the figures to hand :

Enemy killed: 15,506
Civilians killed: 4,232
Afghan Army (ANA) killed: 3,819
Nato forces killed: 1,138

[doktorb]

Taken from the figures to hand :

Enemy killed: 15,506
Civilians killed: 4,232
Afghan Army (ANA) killed: 3,819
Nato forces killed: 1,138

Over 9 years, that's not really that many, compared to other wars.

Wrong. That's over the period of these documents.

[doktorb]

The only traitors in that war are the men who have been in charge of the war the last nearly nine years.

The Afghan war was a justified war. Go spout your naziesque BS elsewhere.

The Afghan was WAS justified, you are quite right.

It is no longer. It has become a never ending killing field.

 I am pleased that it appears end dates are being determined. The lie "staying in Afghanistan is making the streets of Britain safer" has been proven quite wrong.

These documents show, without question if they are all legitimate, that this conflict long ago lost its legitimacy.

[doktorb]

I don't get what is so shocking. War is messy.  Always has been. Always will be.

It's not just "war is messy" that is so shocking. It is the amount of innocent deaths which were covered up. The number of Afghans killed with families "paid off". The hitherto unknown extent of Pakistani involvement in the border area. It's a disgraceful record of a costly, never ending war.

What part about the government covering shit up is shocking?  It's a government. That's what governments do. Especially when it comes to stuff that makes it look bad.

Or am I being too cynical?

No, I think you are right to raise that as a legitimate concern. It is clear from these documents that  the Afghan conflict is become an expensive folly from which we should depart as quickly as it is safe to do so.

The causes of the current troubles with this conflict seem to have switched to Pakistan. I see no end to the deaths of innocent people or the deaths of serviceman if the neverending war is drawn into a part of the world where the threat of nuclear weapons is a very real possibility.

Afghanistan has been a failure and both all forces in Afganistan need to be returned home.

[doktorb]

Yes, fighting wars is the constitutionally authorized job of the federal govt.

At any cost?

[doktorb]

The White House says, Blame Bush.

That is a bizarre statement!

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The documents prove that Americans and their "partners", including Britons, have never been at greater risk from within Afghanistan thanks to the back-of-a-cigarette-packet planning clearly in place before the invasion. As for "threatening security", I have been in an airport during an ETA bomb attack, and have lived in the UK during the IRA bombing campaign; I hold little credence to the idea that maintaining a "conflict" in one part of the world stops attacks elsewhere.

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Might want to check on the "sources" briefing in the newspapers today from both sides who now distruct each other far more than they already did. Pakistan's role in this conflict needs scrutiny, not bypassing.

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Yeah, they're doing an FAN-TAST-IC job of that, so far. Driving Taliban into lawless provinces of Pakistan, well done, there.