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Author Topic: Who Would You Vote For?: Italian Edition  (Read 3735 times)
Manfr
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2011, 06:41:05 am »
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Italian radicals are the embodiment of a current of thought inspired from XIXth century liberalism. They mostly seek to emancipate the Italian society from the Church and aim to establish a secular democracy. Their main focus is on social issues, supporting gay mariage/civil unions, and so forth (they played also an important role in the legalization of divorce in the 1970s). They lean left on economic issues (actually, they were associated with a small social-democratic party until recently) and most of them have now joined the PD.

American libertarians are mostly anarcho-capitalists who seek to eliminate every form of State intervention on economy. Their main struggles are on the economic domain (enormous spending/tax cuts, ending federal programs, etc...). Their rhetoric is usually populist (the "little guys" vs the "evil big government"). While they are theoretically on the left for social issues, those issues always end up getting skipped because fighting "big guv'ment" is the most important thing. Most of them would easily vote for religious nutjob who is fiscally conservative over a social progressive who is also a "tax n spend librul".

Oh yes, I know, I am a member of that small socialdemocratic party Cheesy

I can however assure you that italian radicals, in the last part of the '80s have moved from their social-liberal heritage to a very libertarian, a la american sense, path. Consider their former members Daniele Capezzone and Benedetto della Vedova, for instance, or one of their current leaders, Marco Cappato ... they were among the first and foremost supporters of Pinera-like pension reform !
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Vincenzo
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2011, 08:07:24 pm »
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1946-87 ever PCI but 1948 Fronte
1992 PRC
1994 PRC (Progressisti costituency)
1996 PRC (L'Ulivo costituency)
2001 PRC (L'Ulivo costituency)
2006 PRC
2008 PDAC (i'm from the alone circoncription where run), La Sinistra - Arcobaleno (Senate)
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Antonio V
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2011, 02:45:46 am »
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Italian radicals are the embodiment of a current of thought inspired from XIXth century liberalism. They mostly seek to emancipate the Italian society from the Church and aim to establish a secular democracy. Their main focus is on social issues, supporting gay mariage/civil unions, and so forth (they played also an important role in the legalization of divorce in the 1970s). They lean left on economic issues (actually, they were associated with a small social-democratic party until recently) and most of them have now joined the PD.

American libertarians are mostly anarcho-capitalists who seek to eliminate every form of State intervention on economy. Their main struggles are on the economic domain (enormous spending/tax cuts, ending federal programs, etc...). Their rhetoric is usually populist (the "little guys" vs the "evil big government"). While they are theoretically on the left for social issues, those issues always end up getting skipped because fighting "big guv'ment" is the most important thing. Most of them would easily vote for religious nutjob who is fiscally conservative over a social progressive who is also a "tax n spend librul".

Oh yes, I know, I am a member of that small socialdemocratic party Cheesy

I can however assure you that italian radicals, in the last part of the '80s have moved from their social-liberal heritage to a very libertarian, a la american sense, path. Consider their former members Daniele Capezzone and Benedetto della Vedova, for instance, or one of their current leaders, Marco Cappato ... they were among the first and foremost supporters of Pinera-like pension reform !

Well, I guess you are right and you seem to know the subject better than me. Wink It's true that when I say radical, I tend to think more to Pannella/Bonino etc...
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2011, 06:26:16 am »
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Italian radicals are the embodiment of a current of thought inspired from XIXth century liberalism. They mostly seek to emancipate the Italian society from the Church and aim to establish a secular democracy. Their main focus is on social issues, supporting gay mariage/civil unions, and so forth (they played also an important role in the legalization of divorce in the 1970s). They lean left on economic issues (actually, they were associated with a small social-democratic party until recently) and most of them have now joined the PD.

American libertarians are mostly anarcho-capitalists who seek to eliminate every form of State intervention on economy. Their main struggles are on the economic domain (enormous spending/tax cuts, ending federal programs, etc...). Their rhetoric is usually populist (the "little guys" vs the "evil big government"). While they are theoretically on the left for social issues, those issues always end up getting skipped because fighting "big guv'ment" is the most important thing. Most of them would easily vote for religious nutjob who is fiscally conservative over a social progressive who is also a "tax n spend librul".

Oh yes, I know, I am a member of that small socialdemocratic party Cheesy

I can however assure you that italian radicals, in the last part of the '80s have moved from their social-liberal heritage to a very libertarian, a la american sense, path. Consider their former members Daniele Capezzone and Benedetto della Vedova, for instance, or one of their current leaders, Marco Cappato ... they were among the first and foremost supporters of Pinera-like pension reform !

Can't we say they are now getting closer to what a certain populist right or far-right think, see the PVV: liberal on social issues, "anarcho-capitalist" in economics as Antonio said, without real history nowadays, very modern or even post-modern in many ways ?

Of course, this is a provocative comparison, but I think there is some truth in it.
What do you think, guys ?
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Manfr
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2011, 04:03:39 pm »
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On that point, Radicals must be credited with a staunch defence of human rights and values, even though I find them way too much pro-American bombing of the week: I'd say they are more of a left libertarian than PVV. You might find some PVV-like guys in the PDL, Berlusconi's party, whereas the Lega Nord is more conservative-populist, a la Dansk Folkerpartiet.
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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2011, 11:28:35 pm »
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CD until 1992, Berlusconi from 1994 onwards.
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7.35, 3.65

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Elyski
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2011, 08:23:36 am »
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1946-1958: Christian Democracy
1958-1994: Liberal Party
1994-2008: Pole of Freedoms

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MAINEiac4434
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 09:08:02 pm »
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1913: Partito Socialista Italiano (Italian Socialist Party)
1919: Partito Democratico Sociale Italiano (Italian Social Democratic Party)
1921: Partito Democratico Sociale Italiano (Italian Social Democratic Party)
1924: Partito Socialista Unitario (United Socialist Party)

1929: (Fleeing to Switzerland to avoid Mussolini)
1934: (Fled to Switzerland to avoid Mussolini)
1946: Partito Socialista Italiana di Unità Proletaria (Italian Socialist Party of Proletarian Unity)
1948: Fronte Democratico Popolare (Popular Democratic Front)

1953: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1958: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1963: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1968: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1972: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1976: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1979: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1983: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)
1987: Partito Comunista Italiano (Italian Communist Party)

1992: Partito Democratico della Sinistra (Democratic Party of the Left)
1994: Alleanza dei Progressisti (Alliance of Progressives)

1996: L'Ulivo (The Olive Tree)
2001: L'Ulivo (The Olive Tree)
2006: L'Unione (The Union)
2008: Partito Democratico (Democratic Party)
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Antonio V
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 01:13:51 pm »
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I'll try a new version (there's probably no change, but it's still fun doing).

1946 : Pd'Az
1948 : US
1953 : USI

1958 : PSI
1963 : PSI
1968 : PSU
1972 : PSI

1976 : PR
1979 : PR
1983 : PR
1987 : PR
1992 : Pannella

1994 : PDS / Progressisti
1996 : PDS / L'Ulivo
2001 : Di Pietro / L'Ulivo
2006 : RnP
2008 : IdV
Next : SEL

In 1994 and 1996, I could have voted for the Pannella list too (in the PR vote), and in 2006 I might have voted for IdV. Without insight I would also probably have backed Craxi's PSI in the 1980s.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2011, 01:31:42 pm »
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Maybe You can think that I'm crazy...

1913: Catholics
1919: Populars
1921: Socialists
1924: Communists
1946: PCI
1948: Christian Democracy
1953: PCI
1958: Christian Democracy
1963: PCI
1968: PCI
1972: PCI
1976: PCI
1979: PCI
1983: PRI
1987: PCI
1992: PDS
1994: Progressives / PDS
1996: Olive Tree / PDS
2001: Olive Tree / The Daisy
2006: Olive Tree
2008: Democratic Party
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Antonio V
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« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2011, 03:50:26 am »
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Don't understand the back-and-forth between DC and PCI in in the 1940s and 1950s...
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2011, 04:10:53 pm »
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Don't understand the back-and-forth between DC and PCI in in the 1940s and 1950s...

In 1948 PCI was against the Marshall Plan, and DC was led by Alcide De Gasperi, in My opinion one of the greatest European leaders of ever. In 1957-1958 the Italian Government was led by the Christian Democratic Adone Zoli, another very great leader.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2011, 05:19:24 am »
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I see. Still, I've difficulties to imagine someone being able to vote for both DC or PCI, as they were eternal enemies... I'd understand if you hesitated between DC and PRI, or even PSI. Wink
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
Peter the Lefty
Peternerdman
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2012, 10:17:12 pm »
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1946: PSI
1948: Socialist Unity
1953: PSI
1958: PSI
1963: PSI
1968: PSI-PSDI
1972: PSI
1976: PSI
1979: PSI
1983: PSI
1987: PSI
1992: PDS
1994: PDS
1996: PDS
2001: DS
2006: Olive Tree
2008: PD
Next: SEL
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-7.48 Social
RedPrometheus
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« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2012, 07:12:09 am »
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1913: Socialist Party
1919: Socialist Party
1921: Republican Party
1924: United Socialist Party
1946: Socialist Party
1948: Popular Democratic Front
1953: Socialist Party
1958: Socialist Party
1963: Communist Party
1968: Socialist Party
1972: Socialist Party
1976: Socialist Party
1979: Socialist Party
1983: Socialist Party
1987: Socialist Party
1992: PDS
1994: PDS
1996: Democratic Party
2001: Democratic Party
2006: Olive Tree
2008: Democratic Party
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Political Matrix

E: -7,74
S: -5,22
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2012, 07:16:31 am »
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1946: DC
1948: DC
1953: DC
1958: DC
1963: DC
1968: DC
1972: DC
1976: DC
1979: DC
1983: DC
1987: DC
1992: DC
1994: PdL
1996: PdL
2001: PdL
2006: PdL
2008: PdL
2013: PdL
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7.35, 3.65

« Les plus nobles principes du monde ne valent que par l’action.  » - Charles de Gaulle



Is it excessive to hold a politician's feet to the fire for giving his base the run around at every turn?
Sibboleth
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« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2012, 02:27:10 pm »
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Hey, at least you're honest...
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« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2012, 02:37:35 pm »
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Hey, at least you're honest...
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We need a public option

Quote from: President Harry S. Truman
“We should resolve now that the health of this nation is a national concern; that financial barriers in the way of attaining health shall be removed
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