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Poll
Question: Do you support Obamacare?
I oppose it from the left.   -23 (25%)
I oppose it from the right.   -25 (27.2%)
I oppose it from the center (i.e. I would support Wyden-Bennett or similar)   -2 (2.2%)
I would prefer something else, but support it.   -38 (41.3%)
I wholeheartedly support it.   -4 (4.3%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 92

Author Topic: Opinion of Obamacare  (Read 5302 times)
Bo
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2010, 10:51:53 pm »
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Prefer something else, but support it since it's better than what we had before.
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Mint
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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 02:26:59 am »
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I suppose other than the total failure to address the entitlement problem and all the goodies contained in this is the very weak provisions against excluding based on 'pre existing conditions.' If we're going to have 'compulsory insurance' we should have more than a $100 fine for excluding people (and vice versa). It's only fair.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 05:17:41 am by Mint »Logged
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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 10:34:02 am »
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I oppose this for one simple reason: it is not a single payer system. All this does is officially sanction the place of the insurance companies in the economy almost guarantees that they will not fail. I feel this sanctions a new aristocracy in the United States. If there were at least a public option I could deal with it.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 10:42:15 am »
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Support, though it's not what I wanted.
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 10:47:09 am »
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Do any of you think my 50% rate hike (which I didn't accept of course, I found something else) would have occurred sans Obamacare?  Not rhetorical.  I think they raised it because of what they see on the horizon.  Thoughts?
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« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2010, 12:59:08 pm »
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Who on earth would call this Health care bill 'massive', other than a right-wing propagandist, wormyguy?  It only spends insignificant amounts of money on a problem which deserves about triple the resources.
Well, considering that it spends more money per year than the entire GDP of Hungary, and it radically restructures the American healthcare system, I think that it's fair to call it "massive." I suppose that makes me a "right-wing propagandist."

Apparently.  What does the GDP of Hungary have to do with it?  A trillion dollars over a decade is nothing, considering the size of the US, and especially compared to the amount wasted on military and privileges for the rich.
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« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2010, 01:26:26 pm »
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Who on earth would call this Health care bill 'massive', other than a right-wing propagandist, wormyguy?  It only spends insignificant amounts of money on a problem which deserves about triple the resources.
Well, considering that it spends more money per year than the entire GDP of Hungary, and it radically restructures the American healthcare system, I think that it's fair to call it "massive." I suppose that makes me a "right-wing propagandist."

Apparently.  What does the GDP of Hungary have to do with it?  A trillion dollars over a decade is nothing, considering the size of the US, and especially compared to the amount wasted on military and privileges for the rich.

Privileges? Are you saying that the rich don't have rights to their money and that the fact that taxes are low for them is a privilege? And if so, what property rights do you believe people have?
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« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2010, 01:30:15 pm »
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Privileges? Are you saying that the rich don't have rights to their money and that the fact that taxes are low for them is a privilege? And if so, what property rights do you believe people have?

Property is a privilege, not a 'right' (what is a 'right' anyway?)

Property means you have power over other people, that's all.
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« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2010, 03:29:00 pm »
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Privileges? Are you saying that the rich don't have rights to their money and that the fact that taxes are low for them is a privilege? And if so, what property rights do you believe people have?

Property is a privilege, not a 'right' (what is a 'right' anyway?)

Property means you have power over other people, that's all.

Quote
Right

2 : something to which one has a just claim: as a : the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled <voting rights> <his right to decide> b (1) : the interest that one has in a piece of property —often used in plural <mineral rights> (2) plural : the property interest possessed under law or custom and agreement in an intangible thing especially of a literary and artistic nature <film rights of the novel>
3 : something that one may properly claim as due <knowing the truth is her right>

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When people acquire property, they've something to gain it, therefore they have rights to that property, as they have a claim to that property. It sounds (and I'm sorry if I'm misconstruing your argument) that you don't believe people have rights, but that they have privileges. If people only have privileges, that means that the government can take away people's privileges at a whim, which would mean that the government could arbitrarily kill people (non criminals for the sake of the argument), as people would only have privileges to live. Is this a world you really want to live in? People have rights, and people have rights to property. I can see arguments for why those rights may not be unconditionally inviolable (such as taxation and the death penalty), but I believe people have rights.

Those rich people (excepting criminals) have somehow done something to acquire that money, and have claims to that money. They deserve to keep it, and I don't think letting them keep most of that money is a privilege that we grant them.
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« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2010, 04:21:41 pm »
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I very reluctantly support it, as an almost insignificant step forward which is still a step forward.

However, to be honest, I have only a vague idea of what the reform exactly is, and to have a better opinion I'd need to know better how it works. If someones has a precise idea of what the bill actually says and can sum it up in a post or a PM, I'd ask him to explain me better.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



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« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2010, 05:12:46 pm »
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I think the 15% of people that will get insurance will not consider it an "insignificant step".
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TexasGurl
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« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2010, 10:53:39 pm »
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Opposed, hello from fantasy-land.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2010, 08:02:47 pm »
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I oppose it from the right.
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« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2010, 11:28:13 am »
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We read through the bill in its entirety in a focus group (over the course of many, many meetings). What I like about the bill is that the health care exchanges should allow costs to decrease because it allows individuals to truly see the entire spectrum of health care costs. I also like the fact that health insurance providers must provide coverage to those until age 26 on parental plans and that pre-existing conditions are no longer. Certain clauses in the bill prevent the health insurance companies from raising your premiums/annual costs to cover these measures.

I also like the individual mandate. Just like paying your school property taxes, you may never use the services of public education, but should you need it or have a use for it, it is there. This is actually a conservative piece of legislation because it prevents people from jumping onto government health care if they can afford their own health policy. The health care mandate will actually begin to save money for the government. The bill also contains a Patient's Bill of Rights which I like. The bill also gives a $250 prescription drug rebate to taxpayers from their tax dollars. The insurance companies by this fall, will also be prohibited from dropping policyholders (unless they fail to pay things such as co-pays, etc.). This is a practice that happens for several reasons, especially when a policyholders partakes in an extremely expensive procedure such as cancer treatment or surgery.

Limits: Previously, health insurance companies put lifetime limits or dollar expense limits on insurance policyholders. This bill eliminates limits. The reason being: too many sickly people have "used up" their limit expenses and have suffered/died/been unable to purchase treatments because their insurance company essentially dropped them.

$15 billion has been invested to help combat smoking/obesity. The Prevention and Public Health Fund will provide incentives for inner-city and impoverished youth to eat healthier foods: will include grants for health foods and other foods stores to open up in poorer areas. In our study group, we spent several hours researching obesity costs, and found on several different occasions that obesity is a strain on public funds and obesity reductions seriously lower government expenditures.

Rural health insurance providers will also be assisted by government resources in certain ways. For example, let's say in central Kansas, KansasHealth (I made it up) struggles to provide enough locations for medical care. Well now the federal gov't along with the state of Kansas can help provide funding to open up several other health centers (if need be) so long as these health centers follow the laws provided by the Patient Protection and Affordability Act.


What I don't like: The bill will put a requirement on small business to provide health insurance, though despite many complaints and misinformation, the federal gov't provides generous tax decreases to these businesses, rebates, and new exemptions from business income tax.


There are truthfully so many more things in this bill that we discussed such as Medicare Donut Hole Reform, and an expansive new agency that is going to seriously eliminate medicare fraud. In our research in the study group, we also found that preventive care can seriously reduce debts for not only the federal and state governments but also for the policy holder and insurance provider. If anyone wants me to continue on what else the legislation does, let me know!
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« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2010, 11:52:29 am »
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I would prefer something else (an American NHS), but support it.
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« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2010, 12:26:18 pm »
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You support the mandate. What are you some sort of authoritarian thug?
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« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2010, 12:55:11 pm »
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You support the mandate. What are you some sort of authoritarian thug?

The economic system in which you live is authoritarian, States.
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« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2010, 07:52:48 pm »
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I oppose it from the left.

I wanted single payer, but that was never even put on the table.
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« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2010, 07:54:36 pm »
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You support the mandate. What are you some sort of authoritarian thug?

The economic system in which you live is authoritarian, States.

Hurr
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« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2010, 08:59:45 pm »
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What is your opinion of the recent massive health care legislation passed in the US?

Massive? It's objectively less radical (using all possible political/policy meanings of the word) than the bulk of the timid social legislation passed in most European countries before the First World War.
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« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2010, 09:11:45 pm »
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I would prefer something else (an American NHS), but support it.

This for me. My biggest complaint (besides no government program) is the individual mandate, but whatever.
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2012, 07:53:14 pm »
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Bumping to see if anyone's opinions on it (besides my own) has changed within the past two years since it was signed into law.... 
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2012, 08:53:08 pm »
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I oppose it from the left but am pragmatic enough to accept it gratefully as better than what preceded it. On the other hand, I'm not exactly thrilled at the prospect of having to purchase private insurance soon... but who knows? Maybe I will have more disposable income in time!
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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2012, 08:59:24 pm »
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I oppose it from the Libertarian realm (I voted from the right, because I tend to agree with the right on this issue.)
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Antonio V
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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2012, 09:16:15 pm »
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Better than status quo ante, worse than what I consider to be the acceptable minimum in a developed country.
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Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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