The White City

[Storebought]

A long article taken from a blog that argues that the 'progressive' cities (Seattle, Portland, Denver, etc.) so favorably mentioned in the media, and by 'progressives' themselves, are merely examples of a nationwide pattern of white flight.

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This blog is the highest-level media source that even addresses this obvious phenomenon.

[Beet]

How many people can really afford to choose the city of residence based on such a flimsy factor such as cultural "hipness" anyway?

Taken together, there are probably a lot more progressives in medium sized cities in Texas or Indiana than there are in Portland; there are probably more progressives in cities across Red America than there are in the five cities mentioned here.

[bgwah]

How many people can really afford to choose the city of residence based on such a flimsy factor such as cultural "hipness" anyway?

Taken together, there are probably a lot more progressives in medium sized cities in Texas or Indiana than there are in Portland; there are probably more progressives in cities across Red America than there are in the five cities mentioned here.

Yes, and Barack Obama got more votes in Utah than San Francisco... Seems like kind of a silly point, IMO...

[Sbane]

Austin and Denver are only 50% white non hispanic so yeah...... And yes the Northwest has a lot of white people, but is this surprising? They are far away from the south so they were the least impacted by the great migration (and this is true of most of the west including California, which is only 6% black in contrast to the conventional wisdom that California has a large black population), and they are farther away from the southern border so they were less impacted by latino immigration (but that is changing rapidly). And since they don't have a very large city (Seattle is large, but doesn't compare to NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Dallas, Houston etc), they weren't impacted that much by other immigration either.

It's interesting that SF wasn't chosen as one of the cities since it's pretty much the definition of a progressive city. I guess discussing a place as ethnically diverse and yet progressive as SF would have detracted from the "point" they were trying to make.

[phk]

Austin and Denver are only 50% white non hispanic so yeah...... And yes the Northwest has a lot of white people, but is this surprising? They are far away from the south so they were the least impacted by the great migration (and this is true of most of the west including California, which is only 6% black in contrast to the conventional wisdom that California has a large black population), and they are farther away from the southern border so they were less impacted by latino immigration (but that is changing rapidly). And since they don't have a very large city (Seattle is large, but doesn't compare to NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Dallas, Houston etc), they weren't impacted that much by other immigration either.

It's interesting that SF wasn't chosen as one of the cities since it's pretty much the definition of a progressive city. I guess discussing a place as ethnically diverse and yet progressive as SF would have detracted from the "point" they were trying to make.

San Francisco and Austin are 6% Black, less than San Diego's 7%.

[Sbane]

Austin and Denver are only 50% white non hispanic so yeah...... And yes the Northwest has a lot of white people, but is this surprising? They are far away from the south so they were the least impacted by the great migration (and this is true of most of the west including California, which is only 6% black in contrast to the conventional wisdom that California has a large black population), and they are farther away from the southern border so they were less impacted by latino immigration (but that is changing rapidly). And since they don't have a very large city (Seattle is large, but doesn't compare to NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Dallas, Houston etc), they weren't impacted that much by other immigration either.

It's interesting that SF wasn't chosen as one of the cities since it's pretty much the definition of a progressive city. I guess discussing a place as ethnically diverse and yet progressive as SF would have detracted from the "point" they were trying to make.

San Francisco and Austin are 6% Black, less than San Diego's 7%.

Austin has a large latino population and SF has a large asian population. Or can it only be white vs black?

I would have expected more Blacks in SD tbh, due to the large military presence.

[muon2]

Austin and Denver are only 50% white non hispanic so yeah...... And yes the Northwest has a lot of white people, but is this surprising? They are far away from the south so they were the least impacted by the great migration (and this is true of most of the west including California, which is only 6% black in contrast to the conventional wisdom that California has a large black population), and they are farther away from the southern border so they were less impacted by latino immigration (but that is changing rapidly). And since they don't have a very large city (Seattle is large, but doesn't compare to NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Dallas, Houston etc), they weren't impacted that much by other immigration either.

It's interesting that SF wasn't chosen as one of the cities since it's pretty much the definition of a progressive city. I guess discussing a place as ethnically diverse and yet progressive as SF would have detracted from the "point" they were trying to make.

San Francisco and Austin are 6% Black, less than San Diego's 7%.

Austin has a large latino population and SF has a large asian population. Or can it only be white vs black?

I would have expected more Blacks in SD tbh, due to the large military presence.

Your thoughts mirror mine when reading the article. It's clear that to the author diversity only is measured by African Americans in a city. His graphs are only about black populations. In his concluding paragraph, he finally makes reference to Latinos.

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Here, his bias is clear because the facts about Latinos in some of his example cities is wrong. Denver and Austin have large Latino populations, and could easily be predominately Latino in the future. It seems that the author does not want to recognize this, and instead sees the situation only in black and white - where anyone not black is white.

[phk]

The phenomenon of "White Flight" traditionally has been White vs Black mostly. Hispanics are a bit harder to pin down since there is almost no real White Flight from White Hispanics but somewhat a good amount due to Native American Hispanics. Asian "White Flight" is probably likely only in areas with good amounts of Hmong or Khmer populations I suppose.

[Brittain33]

since there is almost no real White Flight from White Hispanics

Miami-Dade?

[phk]

since there is almost no real White Flight from White Hispanics

Miami-Dade?

MMhm. White flight increased in Miami after the Mariel Lift, but I think the Mariel refugees were less white than the average Cuban-American.

[phk]

Austin and Denver are only 50% white non hispanic so yeah...... And yes the Northwest has a lot of white people, but is this surprising? They are far away from the south so they were the least impacted by the great migration (and this is true of most of the west including California, which is only 6% black in contrast to the conventional wisdom that California has a large black population), and they are farther away from the southern border so they were less impacted by latino immigration (but that is changing rapidly). And since they don't have a very large city (Seattle is large, but doesn't compare to NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Dallas, Houston etc), they weren't impacted that much by other immigration either.

It's interesting that SF wasn't chosen as one of the cities since it's pretty much the definition of a progressive city. I guess discussing a place as ethnically diverse and yet progressive as SF would have detracted from the "point" they were trying to make.

San Francisco and Austin are 6% Black, less than San Diego's 7%.

Austin has a large latino population and SF has a large asian population. Or can it only be white vs black?

I would have expected more Blacks in SD tbh, due to the large military presence.

SD is probably the least black of the big cities.

[Vepres]

This article was largely, well, stupid.

Sure, Denver is only 10% black, a whole 2.5% less than the national average. Give me a break! 1 out of 10 people are black, and 1/3 are Hispanic, that seems far more diverse than Scandinavia.

Another city, Austin, 35% Hispanic and 5.5% asian. Very diverse if you ask me. Again, 8% black does not mean the black community has no presence. There are still a lot relative to some places in this country.

As for Minneapolis, Wikipedia says the city itself is 17% black.

Essentially, this article is total BS

[Ban my account ffs!]

This article was largely, well, stupid.

Sure, Denver is only 10% black, a whole 2.5% less than the national average. Give me a break! 1 out of 10 people are black, and 1/3 are Hispanic, that seems far more diverse than Scandinavia.

Another city, Austin, 35% Hispanic and 5.5% asian. Very diverse if you ask me. Again, 8% black does not mean the black community has no presence. There are still a lot relative to some places in this country.

As for Minneapolis, Wikipedia says the city itself is 17% black.

Essentially, this article is total BS

Yes... 17% black in Minneapolis.. but they're not all really black because many of them are immigrants from Africa. 

Apparently diversity is determined only by how many African Americans you have in your city

The truth of the matter is:  Minneapolis is still the most diverse city in the state of Minnesota.  Try Duluth once.. it's like 97% white.  Though it is kinda funny that whites in Duluth are likely more progressive than Minneapolis whites.

[Brittain33]

Didn't we have this same discussion when the article first came out? It sounds very familiar.

[memphis]

So NYC isn't a progressive city?

[Storebought]

This article was largely, well, stupid.

Sure, Denver is only 10% black, a whole 2.5% less than the national average. Give me a break! 1 out of 10 people are black, and 1/3 are Hispanic, that seems far more diverse than Scandinavia.

Another city, Austin, 35% Hispanic and 5.5% Asian. Very diverse if you ask me. Again, 8% black does not mean the black community has no presence. There are still a lot relative to some places in this country.

As for Minneapolis, Wikipedia says the city itself is 17% black.

Essentially, this article is total BS

You must be logged in to read this quote.

For a very good reason: White-black integration has always remained the most intractable, and, as previously mentioned, the presence of blacks is the primary factor concerning white flight on the local scale, and, arguably, on the national scale as well.

The question in the article simply posed why cities held as examples of 21st century urban design, particularly by progressives, are among the least black in the US, yet, somehow, have managed to avoid the stigma surrounding majority white suburbs in the Midwest with similar amenities, or equally well-maintained and sparsely-black cities like SLC or Boise. Indeed, an article in Time Magazine went so far as to describe places like Boise (but not Portland) "Whitevilles."

An interesting fact: Cities like San Francisco and Portland had higher percentages, and likely, even raw numbers, of blacks when they were controlled by traditional ethnic Democratic machines.

[Storebought]

Didn't we have this same discussion when the article first came out? It sounds very familiar.

I don't know. This article is a year old, and I didn't post in 2009. It may have been.

[Brittain33]

Didn't we have this same discussion when the article first came out? It sounds very familiar.

I don't know. This article is a year old, and I didn't post in 2009. It may have been.

I didn't mean to criticize you for it, I'm just making the connection.

[phk]

This article was largely, well, stupid.

Sure, Denver is only 10% black, a whole 2.5% less than the national average. Give me a break! 1 out of 10 people are black, and 1/3 are Hispanic, that seems far more diverse than Scandinavia.

Another city, Austin, 35% Hispanic and 5.5% asian. Very diverse if you ask me. Again, 8% black does not mean the black community has no presence. There are still a lot relative to some places in this country.

As for Minneapolis, Wikipedia says the city itself is 17% black.

Essentially, this article is total BS

Yes... 17% black in Minneapolis.. but they're not all really black because many of them are immigrants from Africa. 

Apparently diversity is determined only by how many African Americans you have in your city

The truth of the matter is:  Minneapolis is still the most diverse city in the state of Minnesota.  Try Duluth once.. it's like 97% white.  Though it is kinda funny that whites in Duluth are likely more progressive than Minneapolis whites.

The most typical diversity measure was to simply do 1 - White%

[Torie]

The ugly truth is that it is about crime rates.

[Verily]

The ugly truth is that it is about crime rates.

Not *quite* right as a few highly diverse cities like San Diego and El Paso have lower crime rates than Seattle or Portland. But it is a good proxy for urban social integration, which has to do with race but is not the same as it.

[Saxwsylvania]

Progressives don't like living with minorities?  That's a shocker.

[Holmes]

Progressives don't like living with minorities?  That's a shocker.

Come on Vander Blah, critical thinking!!! Look into the article and analyze it, you can do better than that!

[Torie]

The ugly truth is that it is about crime rates.

Not *quite* right as a few highly diverse cities like San Diego and El Paso have lower crime rates than Seattle or Portland. But it is a good proxy for urban social integration, which has to do with race but is not the same as it.

I was talking about blacks (the black "underclass"). The thing about Hispanic crime, is that it is mostly gang related, and "civilians" are not much at risk. Heck I ran around Silverlake in the late 1970's at night alone, when it was much more Hispanic (and very much more down market Hispanic), with some gangs, and never felt any fear. One of the reasons LA crime is down, and down dramatically, is that there are far fewer underclass blacks now. They have left, or their issue have been upwardly mobile, and moved out to some of the burbs. The "blackest" neighborhoods in LA are now middle or upper middle class. Crime is the thing. Crime kills cities, and abating it, revives them. That is one metric you can take to the bank.

[cinyc]

So NYC isn't a progressive city?

Not really.  Among white voters living in Manhattan below 96th street and a few trendy outer borough neighborhoods, yes.  But once you get to the outer boroughs, the long-term resident white voters are pretty conservative.  Portland and Austin didn't elect someone like Giuliani.