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| | |-+  Supreme Court and the Individual Health Insurance Mandate
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Author Topic: Supreme Court and the Individual Health Insurance Mandate  (Read 19651 times)
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thrillr1111
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« Reply #150 on: June 28, 2012, 10:27:38 am »
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obama's re-election numbers on intrade also went up
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Likely Voter
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« Reply #151 on: June 28, 2012, 10:34:05 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.
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mokbu
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« Reply #152 on: June 28, 2012, 10:38:09 am »
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I'm so happy that on one day, one judge was able to make a decision that wasn't based on his/her politcal ideology. This is supposed to be how the system works. I know that liberals have also won key battles through unelected courts as well. Law is supposed to be made by elected officials.
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wan
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« Reply #153 on: June 28, 2012, 10:41:22 am »
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the supreme court had everyone fooled. I even thought it was going to be struck down.
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Speaker Dereich
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« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2012, 10:45:57 am »
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the supreme court had everyone fooled. I even thought it was going to be struck down.

The court never fooled anyone, they just fooled themselves. "Common knowledge" is a dumb thing.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2012, 10:52:09 am »
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I'm so happy that on one day, one judge was able to make a decision that wasn't based on his/her politcal ideology. This is supposed to be how the system works. I know that liberals have also won key battles through unelected courts as well. Law is supposed to be made by elected officials.

Two judges, actually.  Anthony Kennedy and John Roberts are doing some sort of sitcom-style trading places thing.
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Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
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« Reply #156 on: June 28, 2012, 11:01:11 am »
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I'm so happy that on one day, one judge was able to make a decision that wasn't based on his/her politcal ideology. This is supposed to be how the system works. I know that liberals have also won key battles through unelected courts as well. Law is supposed to be made by elected officials.

Actually from what I've read in the opinion so far, it is very much about Robert's ideology. At his confirmation he stressed judicial restraint and opposed judicial activism. The opinion reflects that view in deferring to the legislature where he could.
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« Reply #157 on: June 28, 2012, 11:18:49 am »
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at least now with universal marriage, people can get free health care by marrying their partners instead of having to pay the "health care tax" 

Some health care providers require couples to be in a "sexual relationship" instead of a platonic relationship.  However, many straight and non-straight couples are actually in platonic relationships, depending on your definition of platonic, which basically means no insemination occurs. 

I expect the definition of marriage to expand to all singles and couples who are in platonic relationships (such as long term roommates).  There are many singles and couples who cannot engage in sexual activity for a variety of physical or health reasons.  This should not deny them the benefits of free health care through marriage. 
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« Reply #158 on: June 28, 2012, 11:22:36 am »
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With fewer and fewer companies offering health care coverage except the high paying jobs and the out of control the prescriptive drugs costs keeps going, people will find ways to get around getting health care insurance and keep going to clinics and the well off will get health care unless you are an unwed mother with kids or a senior.
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« Reply #159 on: June 28, 2012, 11:23:18 am »
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You can see there is something wrong with this country when such an obvious and logical decision makes the headlines and is decided by a single vote.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

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« Reply #160 on: June 28, 2012, 11:24:35 am »
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You can see there is something wrong with this country when such an obvious and logical decision makes the headlines and is decided by a single vote.

Well...worse is that "Obamacare" is even considered a universal healthcare project to begin with.
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anvi
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« Reply #161 on: June 28, 2012, 11:25:16 am »
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Beet is vindicated. The mandate is a tax!  Who knew?  Smiley   

Yeah, Beet definitely wins first prize.  Torie comes in second.  I finished last, which was, you know, fairly predictable.  After another listen to Kennedy's comments during oral arguments the other day, I'm not surprised at all he voted for a wholesale strikedown.  Roberts saying that, even though Congress didn't call it a tax, it is one, sure surprised me. 
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J. J.
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« Reply #162 on: June 28, 2012, 11:30:47 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.
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J. J.

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« Reply #163 on: June 28, 2012, 11:35:40 am »
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Great news.
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Franzl
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« Reply #164 on: June 28, 2012, 11:37:29 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.

A tax that his opponent supported. Before he opposed it.
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« Reply #165 on: June 28, 2012, 11:38:48 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.

A tax that his opponent supported. Before he opposed it.

A tax that will only be paid by people who a) don't have insurance now, b) don't want to buy insurance, and c) have a relatively high income that takes them out of subsidy range.
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Yank2133
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« Reply #166 on: June 28, 2012, 11:39:41 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.

A tax that his opponent supported. Before he opposed it.

Yeah, Republicans on here seem to be forgetting who they are depending on to sell this message.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #167 on: June 28, 2012, 11:40:38 am »
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"I will be voting against John Roberts' nomination. I do so with considerable reticence. I hope that I am wrong." ~ Barack Obama, 2005.
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Einzige is a poltroon who cowardly turns down duel challenges he should be honor-bound to accept. The Code Duello authorizes you to mock and belittle such a pathetic honorless scoundrel.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #168 on: June 28, 2012, 11:44:46 am »
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Alright all you young post-age 26 slacker hipsters out there, time to start insurance shopping, and remember go for the gusto on coverage if its subsidized.

and as a young pre-age 26 slacker hipster, I'm delighted to say I can slack on my insurance shopping for yet another 4 1/3 years, as I enjoy my handout from my father and the City of New York.
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J. J.
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« Reply #169 on: June 28, 2012, 11:47:34 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.

A tax that his opponent supported. Before he opposed it.

Yeah, Republicans on here seem to be forgetting who they are depending on to sell this message.

You really don't need to sell this message too much; people understand tax increases.
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J. J.

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The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

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Beet
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« Reply #170 on: June 28, 2012, 11:50:24 am »
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Great news. I have to give massive props to Chief Justice Roberts for his admirable adherence to judicial restraint in this case. It looks like Torie was right with respect to the Commerce Clause. Roberts will be one to watch. He knows how to move carefully and keep the Court out of searing political battles, which is right where it should be. And yes, I agree with his reasoning in this one, as well. Tongue
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anvi
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« Reply #171 on: June 28, 2012, 11:54:14 am »
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Well now, hold on; I do finish last, but I get a few points...

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

"b.)  Such an analysis suggests that the shared responsibility payment may for constitutional purposes be considered a tax. The payment is not so high that there is really no choice but to buy health insurance; the payment is not limited to willful violations, as penal- ties for unlawful acts often are; and the payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation. Cf. Bailey v. Drexel Furniture Co., 259 U. S. 20, 36–37. None of this is to say that pay- ment is not intended to induce the purchase of health insurance. But the mandate need not be read to declare that failing to do so is un- lawful. Neither the Affordable Care Act nor any other law attaches negative legal consequences to not buying health insurance, beyond requiring a payment to the IRS. And Congress’s choice of language— stating that individuals “shall” obtain insurance or pay a “penalty”— does not require reading §5000A as punishing unlawful conduct."
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They call me PR
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« Reply #172 on: June 28, 2012, 11:56:11 am »
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A win is a win

But now the GOP will argue that Obamacare is a "secret tax" and that Obama lied when he said it wasn't a tax, but now it is officially a tax.

This. 

Still, it is better politically than it being found totally unconstitutional.

A tax that his opponent supported. Before he opposed it.

Yeah, Republicans on here seem to be forgetting who they are depending on to sell this message.

You really don't need to sell this message too much; people understand tax increases.

People also understand what the phrase "pre-existing condition" means.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #173 on: June 28, 2012, 11:59:07 am »
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I'm so happy that on one day, one judge was able to make a decision that wasn't based on his/her politcal ideology. This is supposed to be how the system works. I know that liberals have also won key battles through unelected courts as well. Law is supposed to be made by elected officials.

Actually from what I've read in the opinion so far, it is very much about Robert's ideology. At his confirmation he stressed judicial restraint and opposed judicial activism. The opinion reflects that view in deferring to the legislature where he could.

Well, it is how judges should do. Judgements must be done using laws, not ideology.
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BritishDixie
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« Reply #174 on: June 28, 2012, 12:03:37 pm »
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at least now with universal marriage, people can get free health care by marrying their partners instead of having to pay the "health care tax" 

Some health care providers require couples to be in a "sexual relationship" instead of a platonic relationship.  However, many straight and non-straight couples are actually in platonic relationships, depending on your definition of platonic, which basically means no insemination occurs. 

I expect the definition of marriage to expand to all singles and couples who are in platonic relationships (such as long term roommates).  There are many singles and couples who cannot engage in sexual activity for a variety of physical or health reasons.  This should not deny them the benefits of free health care through marriage. 

So basically your reducing marriage to a means of acquiring healthcare.

This is bad, as it's the first step towards Universal Single Payer healthcare as in Britain. So enjoy all the corruption, waste, inefficiency, bureaucracy, incompetence and high taxes that it is accompanied by.
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