Open Question to Republicans

[Wakie]

Now that the election is over and the results are in I feel like we can talk openly and not spit venom or partisan BS (for at least the next 6 months).

One of the frequent attacks I heard from the far right was that "Kerry called all our troops in Vietnam war criminals".  Now I have poured over numerous speeches by him (including his testimony before Congress) and I HAVE NOT found any point where he calls our troops war criminals.  In fact the closest thing I've found is him talking about being at a meeting with other veterans who were talking about some of the things they saw.

So ... can one of you guys provide for me a direct quote/link where he actually called our guys war criminals?  Or were y'all just talking out yer butts?

[J-Mann]

Now that the election is over and the results are in I feel like we can talk openly and not spit venom or partisan BS (for at least the next 6 months).

One of the frequent attacks I heard from the far right was that "Kerry called all our troops in Vietnam war criminals".  Now I have poured over numerous speeches by him (including his testimony before Congress) and I HAVE NOT found any point where he calls our troops war criminals.  In fact the closest thing I've found is him talking about being at a meeting with other veterans who were talking about some of the things they saw.

So ... can one of you guys provide for me a direct quote/link where he actually called our guys war criminals?  Or were y'all just talking out yer butts?

I'm no expert on this, as it was a part of the campaign that I didn't pay much attention to as it was a 35-year-old argument that shouldn't have had any bearing on this campaign.  BUT, I think it wasn't so much what Kerry out-and-out said, but what he implied and the image of the American soldier that he helped to create: a war-mongering criminal.  You'll probably get a better answer out of someone who really paid close attention to the Swifties and Vietnam stuff.

[A18]

I don't have a link, but I've heard the audio. Someone else will have to find it online.

[Wakie]

I don't have a link, but I've heard the audio. Someone else will have to find it online.

Here's a link to the full testimony, http://www.c-span.org/vote2004/jkerrytestimony.asp

Where in it does he accuse all soldiers of being war criminals?  He talks about being at a meeting where some vets talk about the things they did.  It is a well-documented fact that these things happened in Vietnam.  Would you have him lie to Congress?  Should military officers lie to their superiors?

[The Duke]

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."

[The Duke]

Might I point out that the excerpt aboveiis not Kerry saying he was in a room with some guys who said it happenned, he was organizer of the meeting and coached these men on what to say.  It later turned out to be fraudulent.

[Pollwatch99]

One of John Kerry's criticisms of Bush was that he would never admit a mistake.  The Swift Boat Veterans said they would stop their advertising if John Kerry apologized to them.  Right or wrong the Swift Boat veterans felt that Kerry's testimony was a reasonable part of the reason they were treated with disdain when they returned from Vietnam.  It sounds plausible, after all these veterans were called baby killers and all sort of other ugly things.

Kerry said on Meet the Press that his testimony was over the top.  I could not understand why he simply didn't call a press conference and apologize to all the Vietnam Veterans. His acknowledgement that his "over the top testimony" could have been part of the reason they were treated without the respect veterans of other wars would have ended the issue.  If the Swift Boat veterans broke their word and continued they would have lost creditability.

A week or so after that, he could have claimed that he will be a President that will acknowledge mistakes and have the courage to correct them implying that Bush could not. 

So what was it about Kerry that stopped him from doing this?  The inner core of John Kerry is deeply anti-war under almost all circumstances.  He could not acknowledge that his actions could have caused pain to others.  That is why he voted the way he did in 1991.           

[Davo]

Where in it does he accuse all soldiers of being war criminals? 

I suppose history can interpret the 'we' in the passage that follows differently. But I think we can reasonably assume he means the U.S. and, therefore, U.S. soldiers.  I would interpret "...violations of those Geneva Conventions..." as meaning 'war crimes.  But then again, you may interpret that statement differently as well.  In other words, I think he's saying what you're looking for here, but of course this is open for interpretation:

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You'll probably say that because he didn't specify 'all soldiers' that he didn't mean 'all soldiers'.  But I'll say that because he didn't specify particular soldiers, that he meant 'all soldiers'.  I wish I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but subsequent actions from Mr. Kerry prevent me from doing so.