Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 21, 2014, 11:46:27 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Gustaf)
| | |-+  What do moral values mean to you?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: What do moral values mean to you?  (Read 18064 times)
DFLofMN
Full Member
***
Posts: 123


View Profile
« on: November 04, 2004, 05:02:49 pm »
Ignore

Since this seems to have come up allot with people that voted for president Bush, what are these moral values?  What do they mean to you in a presdient? 
Logged

DFL of MN
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15199
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2004, 05:14:27 pm »
Ignore

Ensuring that all Americans have an equal opportunity to succeed, regardless of their family history or personal history. Ensuring that one's attainment of wealth is in a direct one to one correlation with one's hard work, creativity, ingenuity, and overall contribution to society.

To me, it is extremely immoral to support the interests of big business and the wealthy when they are in opposition to the interests of the vast majority of all others, which is more often than not the case.

So when I think moral values, I think of selflessness, and helping those who are worse off than yourself. Trusting people, and helping them to the fullest extent of your ability--that to me embodies morality.
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2004, 05:26:38 pm »
Ignore

Then you don't believe in property rights.

If I'm a billionaire and I give someone a million dollars, you're going to step in and tell me it's not fair. That of course is absurd. What's not fair is you dishonoring my wealth by telling me I can't spend it as I wish.

The right to property always comes from people.
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2004, 05:26:49 pm »
Ignore

I don't know about everyone else, but I feel morally obliged to protect our natural resources for our children, and for their children
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 05:31:03 pm »
Ignore

Moral values:
--marriage
--life
--work
--freedom

Kerry doesn't match any of those values.
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15199
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2004, 05:32:40 pm »
Ignore

I don't know about everyone else, but I feel morally obliged to protect our natural resources for our children, and for their children

Yes, I forgot to mention that one. Protecting the environment for future generations is morally right.

Phillip--I do believe in property rights, but I also believe in an acknowledgement by all of the ways in which we earn more money due to the existence of government. I feel that it is morally right to help others, and to acknowledge that we all make more money due to the help of others, too.

Many government programs make society function more effectively and more efficiently, and thus increase the wealth and prosperity of all.
Logged
dazzleman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13821
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2004, 05:37:58 pm »
Ignore

I look at the issue of more values holistically.  Moral values don't really exist as an end in themselves, but to foster the betterment of society.

Strong moral values lead to stronger families, lower crime and ultimately a better economy.  Weak moral values lead ultimately to poverty, a weak family structure and greater human misery.

I think the role of moral values has been seriously distorted.  Those of us who support moral values are called intolerant by people who equate any type of behavior standard with judgment and hate.  These people fail to recognize how high moral values would be of immense benefit in achieving the goals they claim to have.

I think that declining moral values have played a role in widening the gap between rich and poor.  Illegitimacy, broken families, drug use, etc. have trapped many in hopeless poverty and denied educational opportunities to whole classes of children.

Many liberals seem to believe that we can have the type of society that they claim to want without moral values.  This is just not the case.  There should be more of a consensus between conservatives and liberals on the importance of moral values.
Logged
Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28562
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2004, 05:40:36 pm »
Ignore

There should be more of a consensus between conservatives and liberals on the importance of moral values.

There is one.  From what I can see, the disagreement is over what those moral values are, not whether they should exist.
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 56811
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2004, 05:52:32 pm »
Ignore

Building a New Jerusalem
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15199
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2004, 05:58:14 pm »
Ignore

I look at the issue of more values holistically.  Moral values don't really exist as an end in themselves, but to foster the betterment of society.

Strong moral values lead to stronger families, lower crime and ultimately a better economy.  Weak moral values lead ultimately to poverty, a weak family structure and greater human misery.

I think the role of moral values has been seriously distorted.  Those of us who support moral values are called intolerant by people who equate any type of behavior standard with judgment and hate.  These people fail to recognize how high moral values would be of immense benefit in achieving the goals they claim to have.

I think that declining moral values have played a role in widening the gap between rich and poor.  Illegitimacy, broken families, drug use, etc. have trapped many in hopeless poverty and denied educational opportunities to whole classes of children.

Many liberals seem to believe that we can have the type of society that they claim to want without moral values.  This is just not the case.  There should be more of a consensus between conservatives and liberals on the importance of moral values.

Well said. I do agree that strong values are necessary in the betterment of and empowerment of the family, but this requires a combination of economic proactivity as well as a recognition of the importance of responsiblity.

People must be responsible in their decisions, and liberals should stress this more. At the same time, conservatives need to trust the poor to do the right thing when given a fair opportunity, and a failure to do this and a mistrust of those on the bottom of the economic spectrum has led many to be completely unable to succeed due to the nature of our economic system, and thus forced them into crime and poverty.

There is a responsibility on both sides to acknowledge the basic goodness of the other, and to work together to promote both responsibility and social tolerance.
Logged
YoMartin
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 299
View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2004, 06:04:41 pm »
Ignore

What´s the difference between "strong" and "weak" moral values? Maybe you are you confused with the difference between authoritarian/intolerant values and liberal/tolerant values, but the latter are just as strong (or as weak) as the first. Nobody favours a society without values because that would be impossible, and because that would be a value itself.
Logged

Political Compass: E: -0.5, S: -6
dazzleman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13821
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2004, 06:09:08 pm »
Ignore

What´s the difference between "strong" and "weak" moral values? Maybe you are you confused with the difference between authoritarian/intolerant values and liberal/tolerant values, but the latter are just as strong (or as weak) as the first. Nobody favours a society without values because that would be impossible, and because that would be a value itself.

Weak moral values mean that you consider having a child out of wedlock to be as valid a choice as having a child inside marriage, despite what we know about all the financial and psychological disadvantages that children from single-parent homes suffer.

You're right that having no values is a value in itself, and this is the value that many liberals preach.

Liberals often preach individual freedom with socialized responsibility, meaning that people can do whatever they want, and pass the consequences of their actions onto society at large.  This has become the bedrock of modern liberal philosophy.  It will never lead to anything but more problems.
Logged
George W. Bush
eversole_Adam
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 908


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 06:11:08 pm »
Ignore

Abortion is the Biggest Issue to me. I also think Gay Marrige is about morals. However there are many things more important than that.
Logged

Reg. in Texas for fantisy.

IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18787
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2004, 06:15:49 pm »
Ignore

Moral values - ask as many people as you like, but few people will have the exact same definition when you get into the nitty gritty details.

My personal sense of morality comes from two things - a respect for the rights of the individual and a respect for life in general, and the two really intermingle often.
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28562
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2004, 08:04:14 pm »
Ignore

Weak moral values mean that you consider having a child out of wedlock to be as valid a choice as having a child inside marriage, despite what we know about all the financial and psychological disadvantages that children from single-parent homes suffer.

I personally think that you're being way too general in this assertion.  Simply the fact that someone considers having a child out of wedlock to be as fine as having a child inside marriage means that that person has weaker morals than someone who thinks differently?  I was a child born out of wedlock and I grew up in a single-parent home and I turned out just fine.  You have no idea why the person believes this idea, and context is extremely important.  If someone believes that idea because that person doesn't care about the child, then it could be asserted that that person perhaps has weaker morals than others, but only if that was true.

Morals are, on the whole, extremely subjective.  What is perceived as moral today may have not been perceived as moral 500 years ago and may not be perceived as moral 500 years in the future.  Even today, what you regard as moral may not be what someone else regards as moral at this very instant, and there is no real standard to be used to gauge which one is right or wrong, if anyone really is.  Of course, everyone is going to believe that their version is the correct one, but that doesn't mean anything.

You're right that having no values is a value in itself, and this is the value that many liberals preach.

Huh?

Liberals often preach individual freedom with socialized responsibility, meaning that people can do whatever they want, and pass the consequences of their actions onto society at large.  This has become the bedrock of modern liberal philosophy.  It will never lead to anything but more problems.

Not to my knowledge.  It's true that many liberals, including myself, think that a lot of problems people have in the world are at least partly the fault of society and partly out of the individual's hands, but I've never once advocated the position that that gives the individual a free ride.  I very strongly believe in personal responsibility for one's actions.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2004, 08:20:06 pm by Gabu »Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
KEmperor
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8536
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -0.05

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2004, 08:19:02 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18787
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2004, 09:20:30 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice

A fine list. Smiley
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28562
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2004, 09:22:00 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice

A fine list. Smiley

I would agree on the whole, except for "pride".  It's immoral not to be proud?
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18787
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2004, 09:24:57 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice

A fine list. Smiley

I would agree on the whole, except for "pride".  It's immoral not to be proud?

I wouldn't think so. Pride is a fine thing to have if you ask me, so long as it is pride that can be justified. Arrogance on the other hand...
Logged

Gabu
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28562
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2004, 09:32:21 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice

A fine list. Smiley

I would agree on the whole, except for "pride".  It's immoral not to be proud?

I wouldn't think so. Pride is a fine thing to have if you ask me, so long as it is pride that can be justified. Arrogance on the other hand...

I'm not saying that pride is a bad thing; I'm just questioning its being listed as a "moral value".
Logged



"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains.  That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47609


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2004, 10:02:22 pm »
Ignore

Values are totally personal and individual.  I have no business caring about what others preferences are, and they have no business knowing about mine.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

KEmperor
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8536
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.00, S: -0.05

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2004, 10:52:41 pm »
Ignore

Moral Values:

-Rationality
-Independence
-Honesty
-Integrity
-Productiveness
-Pride
-Justice

A fine list. Smiley

I would agree on the whole, except for "pride".  It's immoral not to be proud?

You need to be proud of your accomplishments and your life.  Believing in yourself is very important morally.  Someone without pride is someone who hates himself.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2004, 10:55:17 pm by AFCJ KEmperor »Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2004, 10:54:37 pm »
Ignore

Values are totally personal and individual.  I have no business caring about what others preferences are, and they have no business knowing about mine.

That's a neat value you have.
Logged
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47609


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2004, 11:30:21 pm »
Ignore

Values are totally personal and individual.  I have no business caring about what others preferences are, and they have no business knowing about mine.

That's a neat value you have.

It can be summed up in the sentiment 'F**K OFF'.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

MooMooMoo
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12554
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2008, 11:51:13 am »
Ignore

I want to bring this thread back. I want to go further into the bedrock than this.

Moral Values are the values you personaly hold to be the way you conduct yourself. Now, there are two ways to view this-

- You can't legislate morality because you can't force people to change their beleifs. However, you can legislate ethics and discipline and you could possibly legislate the definition of who is allowed to participate in society.

So instead of thinking of this as a morality issue, I tend to think of this as an enfranchisement/ common good issue. Are outsiders too dangerous to be included or do they add to the collective wisdom of our society and the common good.

So actually, there are several major themes that come up which bring up other themes-

Some questions we need to talk about are:

Is there a common good?
What is the common good?
Who has access to the common good?
Who decides what the common good is?
How do we perpetuate the common good?
What are the goals of perpetuating the common good?
What are the consequences of avoiding the common good?
Are there parts of the common good that conflict?
Could the common good be different?
Can we change the common good?
Would changing the common good be a good thing?
How do we change the common good?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 11:54:09 am by Bill Diamond »Logged


the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
[/quot
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines