Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[Lunar]

Well, I could have told you that Christie was more reasonable than Palin and Palinites.

Well, he did more than be reasonable, he kinda directly contradicted the vibe his national party [not just Palinites] are salivating over.  I think most GOP pols sympathize with what Christie said, but find me some who will actually say it.

[Zarn]

Well, I could have told you that Christie was more reasonable than Palin and Palinites.

Well, he did more than be reasonable, he kinda directly contradicted the vibe his national party [not just Palinites] are salivating over.  I think most GOP pols sympathize with what Christie said, but find me some who will actually say it.

I just wish more would stand up.

[Lunar]

http://wonkette.com/417477/rick-scott-wins-contest-to-be-first-candidate-to-cut-mosque-ad-does-hilarious-ernest-j-pagels-jr-impression

#fail

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

 The Republicans found their new stupid wedge issue. Oh noes, there might be a mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 4 blocks away. The sky is falling.

So Obama finally took a reasonable stand on something, even though it's a completely irrelevant issue. Maybe Obama should concentrate on the economy instead.

[??????????]

The Republicans found their new stupid wedge issue. Oh noes, there might be a mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 4 blocks away. The sky is falling.

So Obama finally took a reasonable stand on something, even though it's a completely irrelevant issue. Maybe Obama should concentrate on the economy instead.

I agree, an Islamic Victory Mosque in a building that was hit by one of the planes landing gear two blocks from ground zero is meaningless really.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The Republicans found their new stupid wedge issue. Oh noes, there might be a mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero instead of 4 blocks away. The sky is falling.

So Obama finally took a reasonable stand on something, even though it's a completely irrelevant issue. Maybe Obama should concentrate on the economy instead.

Obama has already backtracked on supporting the mosque...

[fezzyfestoon]

The only reasonable argument against this (morally, not legally) would be if they intentionally did this to provoke a reaction. I have yet to see any evidence that this is true, and really, you can't even see it from ground zero.

It really pisses me off that there are so few mainstream economic conservatives that aren't xenophobic/hyper-religious.

I personally think it is pretty clearly a provocation....which doesn't affect their rights of course.

Respectfully disagree.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/05/26/2010-05-26_the_truth_about_the_mosque_the_leader_of_proposed_muslim_center_near_ground_zero.html

The guy's full of it, he's been telling everyone a different story.  It would be nice if that were the story, but I don't buy it and I don't see why it should be RIGHT there.  But for the record, I changed my mind almost immediately and don't have a problem with it, just that guy pretty much.

[The Vorlon]

If I bought a piece of property next to one of the Nazi death camps it would be "legal" to build a educational exhibit highlighting all the wonderful achievements of Adolf Hitler (Autobahns, national health care, expanded support for the arts, etc...) but it would certainly be deeply, massively, hurtfully,  and profoundly insensitive to do so....

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I have read lately. And I would have least expected it from you, since everybody here seems to hold you in very high regard.

You have just now equated Al Qaeda with Islam at large which is pretty disgusting, and coincidentally, exactly what the extremists want. They want a holy war and a depressingly high amount of people in America (and apparently also Canada) want to help them achieve their goal.

Now if they were building a mosque near ground zero where they had exhibits about how Al Qaeda is helping poor people in Pakistan and Afghanistan, then you would have a point. When you group in Islam with Al Qaeda like that, it's the same as saying that any celebration of German culture near the concentration camps is insensitive.

Perhaps a bad metaphor....

let me try again....

Back in the 80s I helped a group of people who were trying to stage a gay rights march get a permit, put in place security, etc....  I was living in California at the time, and the local municipal officials seemed to be less than helpful in what should have been a routine bureaucratic matter.

One of the things I very, very, very strongly urged the main organizers to do for the march was to tone it down, and avoid as many of the more, um, er, ah, colorful elements that these parades often tended to include.  Sure they had a "right" to present a number of very colourful things for public display, but why?

My argument was roughly analogous to what I would tell the Cordoba mosque people if I had a chance... why offend people if you don't have to?

If the purpose is to build bridges, then talk to the people you might offend, try to understand their position, reach out, and above all be open and transparent in what you do.

For some people to feel hurt by the prospect of a mosque near ground zero is not a crazy or entirely lunatic notion - and the people who feel a mosque may not be appropriate deserve to be reached out to, and to have their feelings honored, and to be engaged into the process to try to build bridges between the various parties - Calling them racists, xenophobes, or similar names hardly serves the purpose of reconciliation and brotherhood.

[Sbane]

I don't know why they chose to build their Islamic center in that very location. Perhaps that was the best spot? Consider that the building that will be torn down to build the center was damaged during the attacks and hasn't really been used since. I am sure it wasn't very expensive to buy. Buying a functioning building anywhere else in Manhattan, and then razing it and rebuilding would be much more expensive.

I understand why people are sensitive. Even I was curious as to who exactly was building the center as well as their associations when I first heard about this. But the evidence points to the fact that this is a moderate Muslim organization with no known ties to terror groups. It is not just a mosque, but a cultural center where people of all religions can go. So there doesn't seem to be any red flags about the people involved or the planned structure.

People certainly have the right to protest and it's wrong to label them simply as bigots or racists. Yet many of those opposed do have a warped view of what happened on 9/11. Many feel that it was Islam attacking America, when instead it was radical elements within the religion. So when a moderate Islamic group wants to build a center a few blocks down the road, what's the problem? Instead of running away, the group should build there and showcase moderate Islam for New Yorkers. It may be a PR disaster currently, but I doubt it will be that big of a deal after the building is complete. And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

[phk]

I don't know why they chose to build their Islamic center in that very location. Perhaps that was the best spot? Consider that the building that will be torn down to build the center was damaged during the attacks and hasn't really been used since. I am sure it wasn't very expensive to buy. Buying a functioning building anywhere else in Manhattan, and then razing it and rebuilding would be much more expensive.

I understand why people are sensitive. Even I was curious as to who exactly was building the center as well as their associations when I first heard about this. But the evidence points to the fact that this is a moderate Muslim organization with no known ties to terror groups. It is not just a mosque, but a cultural center where people of all religions can go. So there doesn't seem to be any red flags about the people involved or the planned structure.

People certainly have the right to protest and it's wrong to label them simply as bigots or racists. Yet many of those opposed do have a warped view of what happened on 9/11. Many feel that it was Islam attacking America, when instead it was radical elements within the religion. So when a moderate Islamic group wants to build a center a few blocks down the road, what's the problem? Instead of running away, the group should build there and showcase moderate Islam for New Yorkers. It may be a PR disaster currently, but I doubt it will be that big of a deal after the building is complete. And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

Al Qaeda has far too much support to be considered "fringe".

[Sbane]

I don't know why they chose to build their Islamic center in that very location. Perhaps that was the best spot? Consider that the building that will be torn down to build the center was damaged during the attacks and hasn't really been used since. I am sure it wasn't very expensive to buy. Buying a functioning building anywhere else in Manhattan, and then razing it and rebuilding would be much more expensive.

I understand why people are sensitive. Even I was curious as to who exactly was building the center as well as their associations when I first heard about this. But the evidence points to the fact that this is a moderate Muslim organization with no known ties to terror groups. It is not just a mosque, but a cultural center where people of all religions can go. So there doesn't seem to be any red flags about the people involved or the planned structure.

People certainly have the right to protest and it's wrong to label them simply as bigots or racists. Yet many of those opposed do have a warped view of what happened on 9/11. Many feel that it was Islam attacking America, when instead it was radical elements within the religion. So when a moderate Islamic group wants to build a center a few blocks down the road, what's the problem? Instead of running away, the group should build there and showcase moderate Islam for New Yorkers. It may be a PR disaster currently, but I doubt it will be that big of a deal after the building is complete. And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

Al Qaeda has far too much support to be considered "fringe".

Where do they have this support? You do realize that even most Pakistanis don't support them? And considering how a lot of Pakistanis don't like or even hate America, you would think Al Qaeda would be more popular. But you see, this is a rejection of violence. They don't like America. They think it's a violent country that starts wars around the world. But they look at Al Qaeda and don't see anything better.

[Bull Moose Base]

He's against it for being insensitive or whatevsky, but thinks they have the right to do it.

Identical to Obama

Is it?  I remember that Obama thinks they have the right to do it, but I don't remember him saying explicitly that they shouldn't do it?

"I question the wisdom"......didn't you see my earlier translation? 

That's not quite as bold as Reid's statement though, eh?

Obama didn't even say he questioned the wisdom of it.  He reminded people that he made no comment one way or the other on the wisdom of it.

I'd guess Obama does think they should have probably built it somewhere else and, actually, for a similar reason doesn't feel it'd be helpful for him to make a statement to that effect.  The reason is that, based on how Obama has communicated in Latin America, in Europe, in Cairo, etc.  he plainly puts a lot of stock in avoiding provocation, employing tact in emotionally loaded issues, being respectful of sensitivities, and gestures that bridge divisions.  Choosing to build a new Muslim Y cum mosque 2 blocks from the WTC strikes me as a pretty un-Obama-like decision, clumsily counter-productive if not intentionally so.  But complaining about the location achieves the same setback.  The only reason I think Obama clarified that he wasn't speaking to the wisdom of the decision is because the media forced him to by misreporting his original statement as just that: an endorsement of the mosque (instead of a broader affirmation that Muslims have equal rights.)

Reid's comment was foolish and it's too bad he didn't avoid the subject or else call it out for what it is- a phony wedge issue to distract people from the mess that is the GOP and Sharon Angle.

[Brittain33]

I don't know why they chose to build their Islamic center in that very location. Perhaps that was the best spot? Consider that the building that will be torn down to build the center was damaged during the attacks and hasn't really been used since. I am sure it wasn't very expensive to buy.

I'm sure the fact that the area has been a tough sell for private real estate since 9/11 has been a factor. People rarely mention that the financial district is still, well, the financial district and there are plenty of Muslims working in that industry along with people of other religions.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Maybe it was pointed out here, but you can't see the mosque from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the mosque.

I don't get the big whup about it.

[memphis]

Maybe it was pointed out here, but you can't see the mosque from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the mosque.

I don't get the big whup about it.

It's a made up issue because the GOP can't win on substantive issue.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Maybe it was pointed out here, but you can't see the mosque from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the mosque.

I don't get the big whup about it.

It's a made up issue because the GOP can't win on substantive issue.

But, memphis, even Harry Reid is on the bandwagon?  But yeah, Gingrich and his ilk are over the top.  It's bad when Pat Buchanan basically calls Gingrich an asshole.

[The Vorlon]

And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

Islam is a complex matter.

There are many places in the world where "mainstream" Islam is indeed very radical.

The madrassa (Islamic schools) in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc routinely teach that the USA is the devil and should be destroyed, and the Wahhabism promoted/financed on a fairly global scale by the Saudis teaches jihad as an intrinsic element of faith.

Many have raised the Timothy McVeigh analogy saying McVeigh was a catholic, we should not condemn catholics, etc...

This analogy is valid conceptually, but is in error quantitatively.

The percentage of Roman Catholics being taught by the Catholic Church to blow up public building is, well, basically zero - The number of children in Islamic schools being taught to hate America and the west is very substantial, not a majority, but far more than a tiny fringe.

The core issue that needs to addressed is actually not one of religion however, it is the quality of Governance in many Islamic nations. - The USA, Israel, The west, Christians, all make an easy scapegoat for the pathetic living conditions and in many of these nations.

[phk]

I don't know why they chose to build their Islamic center in that very location. Perhaps that was the best spot? Consider that the building that will be torn down to build the center was damaged during the attacks and hasn't really been used since. I am sure it wasn't very expensive to buy. Buying a functioning building anywhere else in Manhattan, and then razing it and rebuilding would be much more expensive.

I understand why people are sensitive. Even I was curious as to who exactly was building the center as well as their associations when I first heard about this. But the evidence points to the fact that this is a moderate Muslim organization with no known ties to terror groups. It is not just a mosque, but a cultural center where people of all religions can go. So there doesn't seem to be any red flags about the people involved or the planned structure.

People certainly have the right to protest and it's wrong to label them simply as bigots or racists. Yet many of those opposed do have a warped view of what happened on 9/11. Many feel that it was Islam attacking America, when instead it was radical elements within the religion. So when a moderate Islamic group wants to build a center a few blocks down the road, what's the problem? Instead of running away, the group should build there and showcase moderate Islam for New Yorkers. It may be a PR disaster currently, but I doubt it will be that big of a deal after the building is complete. And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

Al Qaeda has far too much support to be considered "fringe".

Where do they have this support? You do realize that even most Pakistanis don't support them? And considering how a lot of Pakistanis don't like or even hate America, you would think Al Qaeda would be more popular. But you see, this is a rejection of violence. They don't like America. They think it's a violent country that starts wars around the world. But they look at Al Qaeda and don't see anything better.

18% of support in Pakistan is not exactly fringe and if we exclude non-Sunni Pakistanis the support for Al Qaeda is like 25%.

[memphis]

Maybe it was pointed out here, but you can't see the mosque from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the mosque.

I don't get the big whup about it.

It's a made up issue because the GOP can't win on substantive issue.

But, memphis, even Harry Reid is on the bandwagon?  But yeah, Gingrich and his ilk are over the top.  It's bad when Pat Buchanan basically calls Gingrich an asshole.

Reid is a major HP for jumping on this train, but it's not like he was the one instigating it. It's been close to two weeks now since Palin urged people to "refudiate."

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Maybe it was pointed out here, but you can't see the mosque from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the mosque.

I don't get the big whup about it.

It's a made up issue because the GOP can't win on substantive issue.

But, memphis, even Harry Reid is on the bandwagon?  But yeah, Gingrich and his ilk are over the top.  It's bad when Pat Buchanan basically calls Gingrich an asshole.

Reid is a major HP for jumping on this train, but it's not like he was the one instigating it. It's been close to two weeks now since Palin urged people to "refudiate."

LOL.......I almost forgot about the refudiate remark.  Some GOPers (the smart few) are distancing themselves from Gingrich.  He's more caustic than Sweet Sarah.

[J. J.]

A serious question to those more familiar with Islam that I. 

Could a memorial to the victims of the attack be incorporated into the mosque building?

[Earth]

Could a memorial to the victims of the attack be incorporated into the mosque building?

a) Why would it?

b) What other businesses in the area have a memorial?

c) Why should the Islamic community center have one?

[J. J.]

Could a memorial to the victims of the attack be incorporated into the mosque building?

a) Why would it?

To honor the victims and recognize that Islam did not attack the WTC.

b) What other businesses in the area have a memorial?

This is not a business.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

See answer a.

[Franzl]

This is not a business.

All churches are businesses.....with tax exempt status.

[Earth]

Could a memorial to the victims of the attack be incorporated into the mosque building?

a) Why would it?

To honor the victims and recognize that Islam did not attack the WTC.

Why would they need to recognize that Islam didn't do the WTC attacks? Every level headed person knows this, particularly, American Muslims.

Why would the victims need to be honored at this community center? Were the victims honored, or a memorial build at other religious centers, or churches?

b) What other businesses in the area have a memorial?

This is not a business.

It's a nonprofit, but it would still rake in money to pay staff, and afford upkeep.