US Regions - Pennsylvania

[Antonio the Sixth]

As I said, I've decided to run a poll for each remaining State not allocated to a region (see the thread "dividing US into regions" for more details). So, let's start this series of polls with Pennsylvania.
Here are the two regions materialized on maps, in order to avoid confusion (light shades mean hypothetical).

Northeast :

Rust Belt :

Please try to think about these options out of their context : the question isn't about the regions themselves, just about Pennsylvania.

[bullmoose88]

Western Half of PA-Rust Belt or less Perjoratively-Midwest/Old Northwest/Great lakes

Southeastern PA-Midatlantic/northeast...Boswash

The remainder really doesn't fit either of these nicely, though could be lumped together with a decent amount of Upstate NY.

[Brittain33]

Western Half of PA-Rust Belt or less Perjoratively-Midwest/Old Northwest/Great lakes

Southeastern PA-Midatlantic/northeast...Boswash

The remainder really doesn't fit either of these nicely, though could be lumped together with a decent amount of Upstate NY.

That's how I feel, and the big discrepancy in population between the parts of Pennsylvania dictated a vote for the northeast.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The point here is about making a choice. A choice that will necessarily be imperfect or unexact, but that you consider as, say, the less worse solution.

[cinyc]

That depends on whether you view Pennsylvania as Philladelphia or Pittsburgh.  Philly and most of Eastern PA belong with the Northeast.  The Allentown area is fast becoming an exurb of New York City and Philadelphia.  Even Scranton has always had a large NYC influence, providing coal for its homes and offices, and is probably more Southern European influenced than Eastern European.  Pittsburgh and most of the rest of the state belongs in the rust belt.  

The general dividing line is probably the Susquehanna River - which ought to extend into Upstate New York, as well.  Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have more in common with the Rust Belt than the Northeast.  Albany is in NYC's circle of dominance in part because of the crooks we send up there.

[bullmoose88]

The general dividing line is probably the Susquehanna River - which ought to extend into Upstate New York, as well.  Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have more in common with the Rust Belt than the Northeast.  Albany is in NYC's circle of dominance in part because of the crooks we send up there.

So true.  A+++++

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Western Half of PA-Rust Belt or less Perjoratively-Midwest/Old Northwest/Great lakes

Southeastern PA-Midatlantic/northeast...Boswash

The remainder really doesn't fit either of these nicely, though could be lumped together with a decent amount of Upstate NY.

That's how I feel, and the big discrepancy in population between the parts of Pennsylvania dictated a vote for the northeast.

[cinyc]

The point here is about making a choice. A choice that will necessarily be imperfect or unexact, but that you consider as, say, the less worse solution.

Well, overall, I think Philly outweighs Pittsburgh these days, and would choose Northeast - just like NYC outweighs Upstate NY.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

[Brittain33]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

Then you end up with 20+% of the country's population in one region.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

Then you end up with 20+% of the country's population in one region.

That's the main problem. One could think about including New England in Northeast, but that makes it a far too big region. If the Northeast doesn't have PA, then it's possible to consider merging the two regions.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

Then you end up with 20+% of the country's population in one region.

Well it makes more sense to separate Pennsylvania than it does to break up the NYC tri-state area. NYC is closer to Boston than it is to Washington.

[bullmoose88]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

Then you end up with 20+% of the country's population in one region.

Well it makes more sense to separate Pennsylvania than it does to break up the NYC tri-state area. NYC is closer to Boston than it is to Washington.

Both PA and NY need to be split somehow.

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

I voted for the Northeast, but this is a very difficult decision. As has been stated before, the ideal solution is a split along the Susquehanna River.

[cinyc]

The Northeast goes all the way down to Washington but doesn't include CT, RI, MA? If you're going to use a liberal definition of Northeast, it ought to at least include the whole BosWash corridor. Connecticut should certainly be grouped with NYC before Pennsylvania is.

Then you end up with 20+% of the country's population in one region.

Well it makes more sense to separate Pennsylvania than it does to break up the NYC tri-state area. NYC is closer to Boston than it is to Washington.

If New England and the "Northeast" or "Mid-Atlantic" are viewed as separate regions, then Connecticut is another state that needs to be split, with at least Fairfield County going into the Northeast, as it is in the NY TV Market.  I'd add Litchfield and New Haven Counties to the Northeast too, or do a split roughly along the Quinnipiac River.  Hartford is more New England. 

[Brittain33]

We're ruling out state splits for this particular exercise, right?

[Dr. Cynic]

Pennsylvania really should be divided in half. Philadelphia is a very much Northeastern city. Pittsburgh on the other hand is very much industrial midwestern in its mindset.

That's why there should've been a Westsylvania. Philly and Pittsburgh are so far apart in mindset that it's almost like two different states.

[muon2]

I vote for the Northeast - particularly if thought of as the Mid-Atlantic to distinguish it from New England. I certainly agree that Pittsburgh and the surrounding area is more like OH, but that's the smaller population side of the state, and it's losing ground due to slower growth than the eastern end.

[J. J.]

The general dividing line is probably the Susquehanna River - which ought to extend into Upstate New York, as well.  Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have more in common with the Rust Belt than the Northeast.  Albany is in NYC's circle of dominance in part because of the crooks we send up there.

So true.  A+++++

I agree.

In terms of electoral vote rankings, it has to be firmly in the Northwest, or southern Northwest, or mid-Atlantic.

Different regions in the state, however, do not behave as part of the Northwest. 

The reason is because the Southeast Pennsylvania region is very heavily Democratic in voting patterns.  As late as 1988, it wasn't.

[Smash255]

The general dividing line is probably the Susquehanna River - which ought to extend into Upstate New York, as well.  Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have more in common with the Rust Belt than the Northeast.  Albany is in NYC's circle of dominance in part because of the crooks we send up there.

So true.  A+++++

I agree.

In terms of electoral vote rankings, it has to be firmly in the Northwest, or southern Northwest, or mid-Atlantic.

Different regions in the state, however, do not behave as part of the Northwest. 

The reason is because the Southeast Pennsylvania region is very heavily Democratic in voting patterns.  As late as 1988, it wasn't.

I can see putting northwest once on accident, but lol....


Anyway, as has been said different parts of PA can fit into each region, but due to the fact Philly has more influence overall than Pittsburgh I would put it in the northeast.

[J. J.]

The general dividing line is probably the Susquehanna River - which ought to extend into Upstate New York, as well.  Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have more in common with the Rust Belt than the Northeast.  Albany is in NYC's circle of dominance in part because of the crooks we send up there.

So true.  A+++++

I agree.

In terms of electoral vote rankings, it has to be firmly in the Northwest, or southern Northwest, or mid-Atlantic.

Different regions in the state, however, do not behave as part of the Northwest. 

The reason is because the Southeast Pennsylvania region is very heavily Democratic in voting patterns.  As late as 1988, it wasn't.

I can see putting northwest once on accident, but lol....


Anyway, as has been said different parts of PA can fit into each region, but due to the fact Philly has more influence overall than Pittsburgh I would put it in the northeast.

Just wrote it wrong ang copied it.  Northeast, obviously, in terms of the state as a whole.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm voting Northeast, as I agree with the fact the Philadelphia area prevails over the Pittsburgh one.

[opebo]

I voted Rustbelt, as I perceive Philadelphia as quite depressed, even though thoroughly northeastern in terms of culture and politics.

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

I voted Rustbelt, as I perceive Philadelphia as quite depressed, even though thoroughly northeastern in terms of culture and politics.

Philadelphia itself may be a bit depressed, but the suburbs are booming. Southwestern Pennsylvania is declining much more rapidly.

[TeePee4Prez]

Northeast, but definite Rust Belt characteristics.`Even in the Eastern part of PA.  You could easily argue parts of NJ, NY, DE, and MD are Rust Belt states.  PA would arguably be the strongest of them however.