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Poll
Question: What idea do you like the most?
Flat Tax w/ $35,000 exemption   -15 (44.1%)
Federal Sales Tax w/ rebate to help lower class   -13 (38.2%)
VAT (Value Added Tax)   -6 (17.6%)
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Total Voters: 32

Author Topic: Tax Reform  (Read 5113 times)
Sulfur
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« on: November 06, 2004, 02:25:03 pm »
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Bush and Hastert have been talking about tax reform for a few months now.

I'm for the Flat Tax myself.
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RomneyGekko Situation Hairgel
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2004, 03:56:54 pm »
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Strongly opposed to all of the above.
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2004, 04:02:31 pm »
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Progressives only, then.

I'm for the sales tax, but it'll probably end up more like a flat tax.
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freewayticket
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2004, 06:22:31 pm »
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I'm all for tax reform. The present system is insane. There are pro and cons to both the flat tax and the national sales tax ideas. I think I have an idea of which one I am in favor of but I'm still open to either idea at this point. In other words, I could still change my mind in favor of the other. I am very  interested in hearing the pros and cons of both ideas argued out. Tax reform is a must.
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2004, 06:24:31 pm »
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I'm for the sales tax, and I would accept the rebate for the lower class. Coming home with more of my paycheck would be very nice. Of course, I'm for spending cuts as well, so the sales tax would be kept low.
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2004, 06:24:50 pm »
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con: they would basically wipe out the dispoable income of everyone in college or under 25 except those who get everything bought for them by their parents. Terrible idea.
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A18
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2004, 06:26:03 pm »
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Anyone 18+ gets a rebate, plus a small amount per child.
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MODU
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2004, 09:40:23 pm »
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Though a flat tax is enticing, I'd be more in favor of a VAT tax first.  However, the best reform we can have is the removal of most tax deductions.  Clean those out first, see how much more revenue the nation collects as result of it, and then go from there.  The goal would to get the system simplified enough to where a person can log on, input the very fewest of information, and submit to the IRS within 5-10 minutes.  Nearly automated and straight forward.
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A18
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2004, 09:51:48 pm »
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A VAT would lead to another complicated federal tax code for retailers, IMO.

I think we should start with a more simplified income tax and try to transition to a sales tax over time.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2004, 09:58:08 pm »
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I don't really see the need for large-scale tax reform.

I don't favor a flat tax for 2 reasons:

-I think a progressive tax is better.
-Real estate values will crash if the mortgage interest deduction is eliminated, and many people would no longer be able to afford their monthly payments.

A sales tax would be highly regressive, and I don't know how it would be administered if there was a credit based on income.

I'd rather stick with what we have now, maybe with a little tinkering.
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 03:28:45 pm »
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Anyone 18+ gets a rebate, plus a small amount per child.

so in other words you would be screwed, unless your parents buy you everything. why  over high schoolers?

if everyone 18+ gets a rebate, wouldn't it be pointless then?

Just answer this flat out: would I have to pay more or less under this plan making about $10k a year? If more then it's a bad idea.
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2004, 03:32:23 pm »
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Strongly opposed to all of the above.

agreed.  at the risk of sounding like a left-wing nut, I think all those are pretty damned regressive.  In BRTD's example, a person making ten grand would probably pay more with a federal sales tax, since he's pay for purchases because he'd ending up spending his whole income (hard to save any on that salary.)

Not sure what form this domestic agenda will take, but I can't imagine that the Grover Norquist model will fly, even with a 55/45 republican congress.
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2004, 03:35:45 pm »
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Anyone 18+ gets a rebate, plus a small amount per child.

so in other words you would be screwed, unless your parents buy you everything. why  over high schoolers?

if everyone 18+ gets a rebate, wouldn't it be pointless then?

Just answer this flat out: would I have to pay more or less under this plan making about $10k a year? If more then it's a bad idea.

You only get a rebate to refund all taxes on poverty level spending.

Making $10,000 a year ... I don't know.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 03:43:02 pm by Philip »Logged
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2004, 03:40:20 pm »
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VAT taxes can be customized among commodities.  Basic needs (food) can be VAT exempt, while a Lexus can have a huge VAT.  In addition, for those under a certain income level can receive a tax refund to off-set the VAT on reasonable non-essential purchases (school supplies, gas, etc).

In a large society like the US, with thousands of companies, it would be a multi-year process of implementing a VAT since (for starters) cash registers would have to be updated in order to apply the correct VAT on the appropriate product.
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2004, 03:42:37 pm »
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Think of the huge burden that would put on retailers, having to look up what the VAT rate is.

Also, I don't like the socialist element to it.
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2004, 03:42:51 pm »
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Anyone 18+ gets a rebate, plus a small amount per child.

so in other words you would be screwed, unless your parents buy you everything. why  over high schoolers?

if everyone 18+ gets a rebate, wouldn't it be pointless then?

Just answer this flat out: would I have to pay more or less under this plan making about $10k a year? If more then it's a bad idea.

You don't get a rebate to refund all taxes on poverty level spending.

Making $10,000 a year ... I don't know.

Keep in mind I'm considered a dependent under my parent still...
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2004, 03:43:35 pm »
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VAT taxes can be customized among commodities. Basic needs (food) can be VAT exempt, while a Lexus can have a huge VAT. In addition, for those under a certain income level can receive a tax refund to off-set the VAT on reasonable non-essential purchases (school supplies, gas, etc).

In a large society like the US, with thousands of companies, it would be a multi-year process of implementing a VAT since (for starters) cash registers would have to be updated in order to apply the correct VAT on the appropriate product.

bad idea then, because the costs of things like hair gel/dye and collector vinyls would go up, and that's what I mostly buy.
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FuturePrez R-AZ
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2004, 05:11:25 am »
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You get to keep your whole check though so you'd have more disposable income to purchase your goodies.
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2004, 05:15:02 am »
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You get to keep your whole check though so you'd have more disposable income to purchase your goodies.


What about payroll taxes?
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stry_cat
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2004, 08:26:40 am »
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Any tax reform must do two things:
1) Eliminate the income tax and the gross invasion of privacy that it is
2) Make it clear to every American how much government really costs.  The currnt system hides it in medium sized deductions in everyone's paycheck.  If they got rid of this and made everyone cough it up in one lump sum, that would be much better. 

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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2004, 12:52:53 pm »
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You get to keep your whole check though so you'd have more disposable income to purchase your goodies.


What about payroll taxes?

I think the sales tax abolishes federal corporate and payroll taxes.
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opebo
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2004, 01:24:18 pm »
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I think in the long run a highly regressive tax system is incompatible with democracy.  As in eventually a majority will notice how poor they are and vote back in progressive taxation+redistributive programs. 
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jfern
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2004, 04:42:48 am »
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You get to keep your whole check though so you'd have more disposable income to purchase your goodies.


What about payroll taxes?

I think the sales tax abolishes federal corporate and payroll taxes.

You mean that it generates about $2 trillion a year in revenue? What's the tax rate? 75%?
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IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2004, 06:14:58 am »
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You get to keep your whole check though so you'd have more disposable income to purchase your goodies.


What about payroll taxes?

I think the sales tax abolishes federal corporate and payroll taxes.

You mean that it generates about $2 trillion a year in revenue? What's the tax rate? 75%?

I believe it is proposed to be 23%
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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2004, 06:55:14 am »
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Excellent idea... if the GOP wants to get slaughtered in the MidTerms...
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