Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 30, 2014, 10:59:42 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Former Moderate, Badger)
| | |-+  Barack the neocon
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Barack the neocon  (Read 1092 times)
Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27426
United States


View Profile
« on: September 06, 2010, 10:32:04 am »
Ignore

In my opinion, the term "neocon" has lost its usefulness, and should be retired to the ash heap of history. The thought occurred to me when reading this rather pedestrian and un-arresting article, that takes a few Obama phrases about lofty American intentions, and assumes that it really has some meaning as to specific policies that the neocon's embraced in international affairs back when. I don't think so. Just because you are not isolationist, does not make you a neocon. Beyond that, each foreign policy issue is unique, and yes, yet another instance where grand unified theories are just not very helpful.

What do you think?
Logged

Vepres
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8103
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.26, S: -7.39

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 01:03:28 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.
Logged

LOL, Failure

Alright, if Republicans gain less than 75 seats, I'll prominently display my failure in my signature.
Beet
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16062


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 03:50:54 pm »
Ignore

Obama was a student of Leo Strauss?
Logged

Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27426
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 04:17:43 pm »
Ignore

Obama was a student of Leo Strauss?

Leo was dead, so I doubt it, unless it was in a seance mode. Cropsy, his acolyte maybe, whom I had as a professor.
Logged

Senator Libertas
Libertas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14781
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.48, S: -9.22

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 06:30:29 pm »
Ignore


Barack Obama has been a neocon since at least the time he began running for president, probably going back to 2004.

Most of the people who want to "retire" the term "neocon" are themselves neocons-in-denial.
Logged
Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30648
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 06:37:17 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.

Exactly.  It's pathetic; the term used to actually mean something, representing a good, legitimate ideology.  Now it's just describing someone liberals/wackjob libertarians don't like.
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
SvenssonRS
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3603
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.39, S: -4.35

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 06:41:51 pm »
Ignore

Most of the people who want to "retire" the term "neocon" are themselves neocons-in-denial.

Untrue. Personally, I think it's lost all significant meaning in use, since literally everyone throws it around to describe people they don't like. It's not even a viable way to describe those with insane foreign policy views any more.
Logged

In Wyoming, there are two seasons.
Winter and July.
Senator Libertas
Libertas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14781
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.48, S: -9.22

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 06:44:35 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.

Exactly.  It's pathetic; the term used to actually mean something, representing a good, legitimate ideology.  Now it's just describing someone liberals/wackjob libertarians don't like.

LOL

Oh, and another example of what I described earlier.
Logged
SvenssonRS
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3603
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.39, S: -4.35

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 06:45:40 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.

Exactly.  It's pathetic; the term used to actually mean something, representing a good, legitimate ideology.  Now it's just describing someone liberals/wackjob libertarians don't like.

LOL

Oh, and another example of what I described earlier.

Of course he'd call insane foreign policy a good idea. Ignore him.
Logged

In Wyoming, there are two seasons.
Winter and July.
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8100
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 06:48:12 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.

Exactly.  It's pathetic; the term used to actually mean something, representing a good, legitimate ideology.  Now it's just describing someone liberals/wackjob libertarians don't like.

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.
Logged

Free Bradley Manning
18 remain
The Obamanation
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6094
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 07:07:25 pm »
Ignore

Most of the people who want to "retire" the term "neocon" are themselves neocons-in-denial.

Untrue. Personally, I think it's lost all significant meaning in use, since literally everyone throws it around to describe people they don't like. It's not even a viable way to describe those with insane foreign policy views any more.

Kind of like "fascist".
Logged
Senator Libertas
Libertas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14781
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.48, S: -9.22

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 07:08:44 pm »
Ignore

The term has been morphed to mean "somebody whose foreign policy views are more hawkish than mine". It really doesn't have much real meaning anymore, having merely becoming a pejorative.

Exactly.  It's pathetic; the term used to actually mean something, representing a good, legitimate ideology.  Now it's just describing someone liberals/wackjob libertarians don't like.

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Of course, didn't you get Ben's memo? If you don't support nuking all those dirty Moslems, you are an isolationist appeaser who loves Hitler.
Logged
Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30648
United States


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 08:35:24 pm »
Ignore

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Not at all.  I'm saying that neoconservativism is a legitimate ideology.
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8100
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 08:42:54 pm »
Ignore

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Not at all.  I'm saying that neoconservativism is a legitimate ideology.

Fair enough.
Logged

Free Bradley Manning
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8608
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 08:56:05 pm »
Ignore

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Not at all.  I'm saying that neoconservativism is a legitimate ideology.

I'm not exactly sure what an "illegitimate" ideology would entail.  Neoconism is an idiotic ideology.  An idiotic, legitimate, idiotic ideology.
Logged
Beet
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16062


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 09:02:57 pm »
Ignore

The definition of a neoconservative is a Marxist who thought that the Great Society was too left-wing.

There, debated settled. Please refer back to this post for all future debates and queries regarding that term. Wink
Logged

Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27426
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 09:21:17 pm »
Ignore

I seem to have opened a Pandora's Box here. Tongue
Logged

Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8100
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 09:41:53 pm »
Ignore

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Not at all.  I'm saying that neoconservativism is a legitimate ideology.

I'm not exactly sure what an "illegitimate" ideology would entail.  Neoconism is an idiotic ideology.  An idiotic, legitimate, idiotic ideology.

Careful now.  Supporting a non-interventionist foreign policy is tantamount to worshiping Hitler.
Logged

Free Bradley Manning
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8608
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 10:11:22 pm »
Ignore

Are you implying that the only people with a "legitimate ideology" support an interventionist foreign policy?  Because if so, you've reached the pinnacle of arrogant hackery right there.

Not at all.  I'm saying that neoconservativism is a legitimate ideology.

I'm not exactly sure what an "illegitimate" ideology would entail.  Neoconism is an idiotic ideology.  An idiotic, legitimate, idiotic ideology.

Careful now.  Supporting a non-interventionist foreign policy is tantamount to worshiping Hitler.

I wouldn't go that far.  You're probably just too embarrassed to admit you masturbate to pictures of Neville Chamberlain.



Sexylicious.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines