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Author Topic: Mandate shmandate  (Read 2663 times)
Brutus
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« on: November 07, 2004, 04:51:19 pm »
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What's with all the 'Bush Mandate' spin?  Since when is 51% considered a mandate?  For those who think that the 3.5 million popular vote margin was a grand display of popular broad-based support, consider this regional statistic:

Bush won the South* by 5 million votes.
Kerry won the remaining 39 states (and DC) by 1.5 million.

It certainly is a mandate from the Bible Belt.

*South defined as 11 states that made up Confederacy.
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MN-Troy
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2004, 04:54:18 pm »
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Quote from: Brutus on November 07, 2004, 04:51:19 pm
What's with all the 'Bush Mandate' spin?  Since when is 51% considered a mandate?  For those who think that the 3.5 million popular vote margin was a grand display of popular broad-based support, consider this regional statistic:

Bush won the South* by 5 million votes.
Kerry won the remaining 39 states (and DC) by 1.5 million.

It certainly is a mandate from the Bible Belt.

*South defined as 11 states that made up Confederacy.

Ok then, I have a question

At was % would you considered a mandate then?
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2004, 04:58:50 pm »
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Shut up Brutus



And put that knife down... you could give yourself an injury
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danwxman
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2004, 04:59:31 pm »
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Republicans talk about how Bush has a mandate and America rejected the far left values etc etc etc..

Well they are forgetting that the "Liberal Massachusetts Senator" got 48% of the vote.
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Brutus
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2004, 05:04:16 pm »
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Quote

Ok then, I have a question

At was % would you considered a mandate then?
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I don't have a specific percentage to define it, but Reagan in '84, Nixon in '72, and Johnson in '64 are good examples.
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zachman
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2004, 05:06:12 pm »
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Winning by 10% is a mandate.
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2004, 05:27:06 pm »
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Quote from: Brutus on November 07, 2004, 05:04:16 pm
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Ok then, I have a question

At was % would you considered a mandate then?
Quote


I don't have a specific percentage to define it, but Reagan in '84, Nixon in '72, and Johnson in '64 are good examples.


I agree, President Bush does not have a mandate. But he was relected President and he has the right to push his agenda through congress. Whether or not it succeeds is another story.
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patrick1
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2004, 05:38:39 pm »
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All of this talk of a mandate is stupid.  I agree with Troy-Bush won and he will try to push his agenda.  Clinton won twice with just a plurality and that did not stop him from pushing his agenda.
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2004, 05:42:05 pm »
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Guess how much difference there would likely be in Bush's second term had Bush won 61%-38%?  My guess is absolutely zero.  For better or for worse, Bush is not apt to think about public opinion when he does something.  He's said numerous times that he works from his gut, not from polls.

For that reason, arguing over whether or not Bush has a mandate is silly.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2004, 05:42:20 pm »
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Quote from: patrick1 on November 07, 2004, 05:38:39 pm
  Clinton won twice with just a plurality and that did not stop him from pushing his agenda.

I was just about to say that. Great point.
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shankbear
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 06:37:21 pm »
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Time Magazine even ran a headline proclaiming the Clinton mandate.  Who cares about a mandate.  Kerry lost.  He was a loser.  He did not prevail.  He accomplished second place.  Who EVER remembers who came in second?
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zachman
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2004, 06:41:55 pm »
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Quote from: shankbear on November 07, 2004, 06:37:21 pm
Time Magazine even ran a headline proclaiming the Clinton mandate.  Who cares about a mandate.  Kerry lost.  He was a loser.  He did not prevail.  He accomplished second place.  Who EVER remembers who came in second?
We history buffs do!
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shankbear
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2004, 06:59:12 pm »
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zach...yeah, I guess Goldwater/Miller remembered that they got wiped out for about 10 minutes.
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Gabu
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2004, 07:02:54 pm »
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Quote from: shankbear on November 07, 2004, 06:37:21 pm
Who EVER remembers who came in second?

Considering that we have a poster whose screen name is dedicated to the loser in 1964, I would wager that a fair number remember.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2004, 07:19:52 pm »
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A mandate is not an either/or thing.

Practically speaking, every president has a mandate to do what he can get Congress to approve.  Nothing more, nothing less.

If Congress balks, and strong public opinion is behind the president on a certain issue, then the president can appeal to the public to put pressure on their representatives to vote for the measure that the president is proposing.

If a president overreaches his mandate, he'll find out soon enough.  President Clinton's first term is a good example of this.  He was elected with a 43% plurality, and he pushed his health care agenda as well as a tax increase, rather than the middle class tax cut he campaigned on.  Although he surely had no mandate for a tax increase, Congress approved it, but they shot him down on health care, which was something he did campaign on.

Therefore, it makes no sense to argue about whether or not Bush has a mandate.  Besides, I would bet that a lot of people who now say Bush doesn't have a mandate thought Clinton got one in 1992, with his 43% of the vote.  Let's just see what he can get through Congress, where Republicans don't have full control.
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Jim Valvano
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2004, 08:21:06 pm »
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Many people don't realize it, but Bush actually has a bigger share of the popular vote this time than Reagan did in 1980!

Bush 2004:      51.04%
Reagan 1980:  50.75%

I would say Bush has a mandate, after all the Republicans did better across the board on election night than almost anyone predicted
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iosip
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2004, 09:15:42 pm »
Quote from: Brutus on November 07, 2004, 04:51:19 pm
What's with all the 'Bush Mandate' spin?  Since when is 51% considered a mandate?

i don't know.

probably when the so-called "liberal" media claimed it was.

even though clinton won by a wider margin yet that was not considered a "mandate".
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A18
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2004, 09:18:12 pm »
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Clinton got 49%. Bush got 51%. The margin is meaningless.

The Democrats didn't have majorities of both houses of Congress, and they didn't sweep the Senate while picking up seats in the House.

And by the way, they did call it a mandate.
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iosip
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2004, 09:20:10 pm »
Quote from: Philip on November 07, 2004, 09:18:12 pm
Clinton got 49%. Bush got 51%.

um, clinton never ran against w. bush.
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A18
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2004, 09:20:59 pm »
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Bush got a majority, Clinton didn't.
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iosip
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2004, 09:22:56 pm »
Quote from: Philip on November 07, 2004, 09:20:59 pm
Bush got a majority, Clinton didn't.

um, clinton did win the popular vote.

he won both ky. and ill. both times.
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A18
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2004, 09:23:41 pm »
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He won the popular vote. That's not the same as getting a majority.
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iosip
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2004, 09:25:26 pm »
Quote from: Philip on November 07, 2004, 09:23:41 pm
He won the popular vote. That's not the same as getting a majority.

then who had the mandate???

bob dole?Huh BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
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A18
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« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2004, 09:26:12 pm »
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Either no one or Clinton.

But if Clinton had one, Bush definitely does as well.
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iosip
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« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2004, 09:27:49 pm »
Quote from: Philip on November 07, 2004, 09:26:12 pm
Either no one or Clinton.

But if Clinton had one, Bush definitely does as well.

that bush does not have as he only won by 3.

clinton won by 6 to 8. and he was a better guy anyway.
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