Why the Stimulus is an Albatross

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Short Answer:  Because Americans can’t see it in action.

Long Answer:  Because the stimulus was short-sighted and didn’t solve any long term problems.  When you spend nearly a $1 Trillion, you have a chance to remake American society.   Obama instead chose the status quo.  A better plan would have spent the $1T to transform America’s energy consumption within 10 years and rid ourselves of foreign oil by building 50 new nuke plants and converting our transportation infrastructure to natgas instead of gasoline.  It could have included legislation to mandate all cars sold in the U.S. by 2015 to be free of gasoline (20% by 2012, 50% by 2013, 75% by 2014, with the last gasoline powered car sold in the US on Dec 31 2015).  You open up drilling for natgas throughout the country.

$300B grants for 50 new nuke plants
$50B grants for new natgas pipelines
$50B grants for adding natural gas pumps to existing gas stations
$100B in misc grants needed to help the nation to convert
====
$500B for energy conversion

Such a program would have had at least 75% of the public approval and could have been a HUGE political asset for Obama, something he could have run on for years and years.  Regulations could have been changed to streamline the process of approval and by Nov 2010 ground could have been broken on at many new nuke plants and gas pipelines.  By Nov 2012 the first natgas cars could have been rolling off the lines.  It would have been the new Apollo project with real progress viewable for all to see.  It would reduce pollution, help the trade deficit, add jobs, drain money used for terrorism, weaken hostile states like Iran, etc, etc, etc.  It could have been Obama’s legacy.  But Obama only knows what he’s learned from books, he has no imagination.

[Frink]

[opebo]

A trillion dollars can remake american society?  What nonsense.  It was a very minor expenditure, and only marginally affects any aspect of society.

[opebo]

A trillion dollars can remake american society?  What nonsense.  It was a very minor expenditure, and only marginally affects any aspect of society.

dude, no amount of money could remake you, for you'll always have an excuse...it's just what losers do best.  You have consistently demonstrated to this forum that you have done the least with your talents.  we get it.

Your post is rather off the topic under discussion here, jmfcst, but oddly enough I just read another post of yours in another thread (religion?  I forget), in which you commented at length about 'winners' and 'losers' suggesting that perhaps we 'losers' would get our re-ward in the heaven.

Anyway, back to the issue here - the reason one trillion can't 'remake' american society isn't because american society is a loser, jmfcst, but rather because american society is big.

[Frink]

A trillion dollars can remake american society?  What nonsense.  It was a very minor expenditure, and only marginally affects any aspect of society.

dude, no amount of money could remake you, for you'll always have an excuse...it's just what losers do best.  You have consistently demonstrated to this forum that you have done the least with your talents.  we get it.

Your post is rather off the topic under discussion here, jmfcst, but oddly enough I just read another post of yours in another thread (religion?  I forget), in which you commented at length about 'winners' and 'losers' suggesting that perhaps we 'losers' would get our re-ward in the heaven.

Anyway, back to the issue here - the reason one trillion can't 'remake' american society isn't because american society is a loser, jmfcst, but rather because american society is big.

Indeed. $1 Trillion Dollars is about 7% of the current US GDP.

That's without getting into the inherent problems with trying to change a society from the top down with money..

[opebo]

Indeed. $1 Trillion Dollars is about 7% of the current US GDP.

That's without getting into the inherent problems with trying to change a society from the top down with money..

Right.  The only way to actually change the society would be to alter the way property rights are imposed, or create a permanent and generous dole, or through extremely high taxation (or other punishments) for the privileged.

[angus]

How Jimmy Carter of you.  Actually, I like the proposal and agree that it would have been a better expenditure of 500 Billion federal dollars, but...

Such a program would have had at least 75% of the public approval

The very highest poll number I have seen for nukes is 59% (Gallup, 2009).  And most polls put it at about low-fifties or lower, so it's not certain that you'd have instant congressional approval.

[Frink]

Every dollar that wasn't used on an infrastructure project would have been put to better use given to state governments (to cover their drop in expenditures) or to pay a couple million unemployed people to dig holes and fill them back up.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

How Jimmy Carter of you.  Actually, I like the proposal and agree that it would have been a better expenditure of 500 Billion federal dollars, but...

Such a program would have had at least 75% of the public approval

The very highest poll number I have seen for nukes is 59% (Gallup, 2009).  And most polls put it at about low-fifties or lower, so it's not certain that you'd have instant congressional approval.

it's not just a nuke plan, but a natgas/nuke plan using nuke for electricity and natgas/electricity for transportation.

i think if the American people understood what the benefits were to spending $500-$700B (our yearly foreign oil bill) within the U.S., instead of sending $500-$700B overseas to unfriendly governments, they would come around in short order.  It would be like a $500-$700B yearly stimulous while helping to keep oil dollars out of the hands of our enemies.

if something better comes along in the future, then you use this lessons learned from this plan to do the next conversion.

[angus]

i think if the American people understood ... it would be like a $500-$700B yearly stimulus while helping to keep oil dollars out of the hands of our enemies.

if.

We need our own Barack Obama for 2012.  Any suggestions? 

[WillK]

Short Answer:  Because Americans can’t see it in action.

Long Answer:  Because the stimulus was short-sighted and didn’t solve any long term problems. 

Totally agree with the general sentiment, though not on board with the nuke plan as the answer.
This administration has take every opportunity to squander its opportunities.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

i think if the American people understood ... it would be like a $500-$700B yearly stimulus while helping to keep oil dollars out of the hands of our enemies.

if.

We need our own Barack Obama for 2012.  Any suggestions? 

it's too late, the american public isn't going to tolerate another $1T spending spree.  as the other post said, the opportunity has been squandered

[Zarn]

Or you can try to not add another trillion dollars to the debt.