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Author Topic: 58% of americans favor creation of third party  (Read 3089 times)
Mint
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« on: September 21, 2010, 09:24:15 am »
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Fifty-eight percent of Americans, and 62% of Tea Party supporters, favor third party

by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans' desires for a third political party are as high as they have been in seven years. Fifty-eight percent of Americans believe a third major political party is needed because the Republican and Democratic Parties do a poor job of representing the American people. That is a significant increase from 2008 and ties the high Gallup has recorded for this measure since 2003.

The finding, based on an Aug. 27-30 USA Today/Gallup poll, comes at a time when Americans are widely dissatisfied with the way things are going in the United States and give relatively weak approval ratings to the president and Congress.

Though the rise in support for a third party could be linked to the Tea Party movement, Tea Party supporters are just about average in terms of wanting to see a third party created. Sixty-two percent of those who describe themselves as Tea Party supporters would like a third major party formed, but so do 59% of those who are neutral toward the Tea Party movement. Tea Party opponents are somewhat less likely to see the need for a third party.

The desire for a third party is fairly similar across ideological groups, with 61% of liberals, 60% of moderates, and 54% of conservatives believing a third major party is needed. That is a narrower gap than Gallup has found in the past; conservatives have typically been far less likely than liberals and moderates to support the creation of a third party.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 09:37:10 am by Mint »Logged
memphis
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 09:50:45 am »
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There are already plenty of "third" parties. It's just that few people actually want to vote for them because doing so helps the major party you like the least.
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 11:35:13 am »
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There are already plenty of "third" parties. It's just that few people actually want to vote for them because doing so helps the major party you like the least.

I'm sure they mean third major party.
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 11:39:45 am »
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The three most popular 3rd parties are all to radical/insane for the average American.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 11:52:49 am »
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Of course they do.
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 11:54:20 am »
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It just means 42% of Americans are so bizarre they think they're being wellserved by their party system.
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 11:55:08 am »
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GO TEA PARTY!!!!!! I can see them winning 58-21-21, easily.
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 12:07:06 pm »
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There are already plenty of "third" parties. It's just that few people actually want to vote for them because doing so helps the major party you like the least.

I'm sure they mean third major party.

And you can't be "major" unless people vote for you. Face it, unless we change the way we vote (unlikely) we're stuck with the parties we have.
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2010, 12:20:05 pm »
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Yes, but do 0.01% favor it?
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King
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2010, 12:20:39 pm »
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The best thing that could possibly happen to this country would be the formation of a formal Conservative/Tea Party.

This would drain all true--and some dumb neos who think they are true--conservatives out of the GOP and put moderate heroism into that party (because when you look at the history of the Republican Party as well as the history of the term "Republican," that's where it belongs).  Then, by draining all the blue dogs out of the Democratic Party, it would finally allow them to become the passionately liberal party they haven't been in 40 years.

This would then allow people to actually know what they are getting when the go vote.

Time and time again the StatesRights and jferns of this country have voted party line in hopes of getting someone who will fight for conservative and liberal values only to get a representative who spends his term swinging watered down deals.

Conservatives are conservative block, Democrats are liberal block, and Republicans form the coalitions (and there's still plenty of htmldons... or hell, me... to vote for coalitioners) that the decide the passage or failure of each bill.

Now, I know what you're gonna say: how is having the conservatives, liberals, and moderate heros separate on the ballot but all still in office going to solve anything?  The answer is very simple: with three parties, any candidate will only need 35% of the vote to be re-elected.  That low of a quota will allow conservatives and liberals to stand their ground and the moderates to vote as they please without worry about a public opinion survey.

It will never happen, but it would solve a lot.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2010, 12:23:46 pm »
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One wonders if that means that only 42% of Americans realize that third parties make no sense given the dynamics of 'democracy'.
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2010, 01:24:33 pm »
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The question is: what third party?

When you look at what's different between the US and other countries with more than two parties, a common difference is the electoral system. It is unusual to maintain more than two dominant parties (other than regional parties) in a FPP system. A "Tea Party" third party would pretty much be a sap on the GOP, resulting in either a moderate Republican Party or Democratic dominance. I see room for a moderate/classical liberal party ala the Minnesota Independence Party, which I would love to see in general, but only because it would be able to find room and balance in the middle. But as much as I'm a pro-third party guy, I would sooner want a change in the electoral system than for a single third party to come to prominence.
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2010, 02:08:44 pm »
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... A "Tea Party" third party would pretty much be a sap on the GOP, resulting in either a moderate Republican Party or Democratic dominance. I see room for a moderate/classical liberal party ala the Minnesota Independence Party, which I would love to see in general, but only because it would be able to find room and balance in the middle. But as much as I'm a pro-third party guy, I would sooner want a change in the electoral system than for a single third party to come to prominence.

The Tea Party is just a third force for neo-liberalism.  The missing party is a socialist/social democrat voice in the US, and it will never be allowed.
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sparkey
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2010, 02:31:30 pm »
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... A "Tea Party" third party would pretty much be a sap on the GOP, resulting in either a moderate Republican Party or Democratic dominance. I see room for a moderate/classical liberal party ala the Minnesota Independence Party, which I would love to see in general, but only because it would be able to find room and balance in the middle. But as much as I'm a pro-third party guy, I would sooner want a change in the electoral system than for a single third party to come to prominence.

The Tea Party is just a third force for neo-liberalism.  The missing party is a socialist/social democrat voice in the US, and it will never be allowed.

"be allowed"...? We have had socialist parties in the US before, but there simply isn't a large enough socialist voting block in the US nowadays for one to spring up in the same way there are opportunities for moderate, classical liberal, and paleoconservative parties. Of the likelihood of the new third party being moderate (or non-right/left, like libertarian or populist) versus conservative or leftist, I would rank it: moderate > conservative >>> leftist.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2010, 02:36:17 pm »
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The Tea Party is just a third force for neo-liberalism.  The missing party is a socialist/social democrat voice in the US, and it will never be allowed.

"be allowed"...?
...moderate, classical liberal, and paleoconservative parties. Of the likelihood of the new third party being moderate (or non-right/left, like libertarian or populist) versus conservative or leftist, I would rank it: moderate > conservative >>> leftist.

I meant be allowed to rule.  All the groups you mention above are neo-liberal.  There's an absolute monopoly of power in the US by the owning elite, and these parties we're talking about are irrelevancies as long as that arrangement is accepted.
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Grumpy Old Fart
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2010, 02:37:40 pm »
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Given the 2 shining stars they have to chose from now, who can blame them?
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2010, 02:42:19 pm »
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Given the 2 shining stars they have to chose from now, who can blame them?

I think we can blame them - they still think american democracy is the answer!  Oh, just add another party, and it'll get better.  Naive j******s.
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 06:08:01 pm »
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Can't we just switch to Proportional representation?  It would eliminate this problem entirely.
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2010, 08:41:12 pm »
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Can't we just switch to Proportional representation?  It would eliminate this problem entirely.

That's the key, but it's unlikely, because it would require a constitutional amendment, and Republican and Democratic congresspeople are among the least likely to support it.
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2010, 01:25:48 am »
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When they realize that it would end up run by Moderate Hero crooks and self-important scum like Specter, Crist, Murkowski, and Lieberman, I doubt they would have such in interest in a third party.
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2010, 01:49:09 am »
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Can't we just switch to Proportional representation?  It would eliminate this problem entirely.

That's the key, but it's unlikely, because it would require a constitutional amendment, and Republican and Democratic congresspeople are among the least likely to support it.

That's the major problem.  Democrats and Republicans have entrenched the two-party system into election law in order to protect themselves and they are therefore the least likely to support any kind of reform, let alone an amendment to the Constitution.

IMO a much easier reform to pass than a proportional representation would be implementing instant run-off voting.  That's how you'd get independents like Crist and other moderates elected.  It would pull everything back to the center instead of pushing it out to the extremes like the current two-step system where the primaries eliminate the moderates and you end up with a choice between two extremists in the general.  If people don't feel like they're wasting their votes on third parties then they'll be more likely to vote for them.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2010, 10:45:56 am »
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a choice between two extremists in the general.

How does the two party system create extremes? The last few elections have been anything but extremists.

Clinton v Dole
Bush v Gore
Bush v Kerry
Obama v McCain

These guys were extremists? More like party hacks.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2010, 02:36:20 pm »
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Look at it like this. Everyone wants a third party, that will be the made in his image. States Rights wants a third party, Fezzy wants a third party. I highly doubt they would fit in the same one. That is why a third party will never work, everyone wants a different kind of third party.
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2010, 02:40:41 pm »
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Can't we just switch to Proportional representation?  It would eliminate this problem entirely.

Absolutely not.
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2010, 03:33:10 pm »
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Can't we just switch to Proportional representation?  It would eliminate this problem entirely.

Absolutely not.

What's so bad with pluralism?
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