Has America peaked?

[angus]

The US peaked in the early 60s, the combination of the "Great Scoiety" dramatic cultureal changes in the late 60s and a insane "free trade" policy that started to be implemented in the late 70s makes this formerly great nation a walking corprse that one day will collapse in a shallow ditch.

wow, dude.  you've become melancholy. 

we're experiencing growing pains.  it is called maturing.  this, too, shall pass.  you'll see.  I say our empire will not collapse till long after we do.

[J. J.]

America looked like it would fall appart in 1812-14, 1861-65, 1929-35, 1941-42, 1968-71, 1978-81, and, according to some, like Lawence O'Donnell, a few days in September of 2001.  In case you didn't notice, we are still here, and expanding our influence, if not our boarders.

I doubt if anybody in 1904 would seen our involvement in Europe or Asia during the next 100 years.  We have excelled and will continue to, in fits and starts.

[JNB]

America looked like it would fall appart in 1812-14, 1861-65, 1929-35, 1941-42, 1968-71, 1978-81, and, according to some, like Lawence O'Donnell, a few days in September of 2001.  In case you didn't notice, we are still here, and expanding our influence, if not our boarders.

I doubt if anybody in 1904 would seen our involvement in Europe or Asia during the next 100 years.  We have excelled and will continue to, in fits and starts.

    The US can not continue to run its debts, keep its borders open to an invasion from Latin America and run massive trade gaps and expect to remain stable.

[angus]

so, we're reading too much WSJ?

you're watching too much Buchanan!

I agree that the national debt (over 60% of GDP by some estimates!) is a HUGE problem.  you'll get no argument from me, but one way to pay off that debt is by allowing workers in to take whatever jobs they can and pay into the system, legally like everybody else.  Stop spending money on troops and M16A2 rifles and empire-building, and halt the tax cuts for the rich.  But keeping allowing potential good taxpaying americans to become americans won't be a detriment.  It'll  be a coup!  Like they used to say in the 30s, "I love hitler!  he keeps shaking the tree, and we keep collecting the apples."  (obviously this was a reference to the intellectual capital/labor of Einstein and others, but the same holds true today.  This safe haven for intellectual labor should remain so, imho)

[raymondluxuryyacht]

I personally think America started going downhill on November 22, 1963.

[Brutus]

... But keeping allowing potential good taxpaying americans to become americans won't be a detriment.  It'll  be a coup!  Like they used to say in the 30s, "I love hitler!  he keeps shaking the tree, and we keep collecting the apples."  (obviously this was a reference to the intellectual capital/labor of Einstein and others, but the same holds true today.  This safe haven for intellectual labor should remain so, imho)

Well said.  It's crazy that we invite the world's best and the brightest to attend our universities, and then ask most to leave when their student visas expire.  I don't know about other states, but at colleges in California the engineering departments are full of students from Asia.  Let's do what we can to keep that brain trust here.

[??????????]

Of course America is headed downhill. The great society, hippies, LBJ the liar and his sort helped to send this country down the tubes. The hippie ideology of "If it feels good do it" is sending us down the tubes. Our only hope is for a national awakening towards better and stronger moral standards. The MTV kids, hip hop and that other garbage is ruining the creative minds of our youth. Drugging our kids with Ritalin isn't helping either.

[angus]

... But keeping allowing potential good taxpaying americans to become americans won't be a detriment.  It'll  be a coup!  Like they used to say in the 30s, "I love hitler!  he keeps shaking the tree, and we keep collecting the apples."  (obviously this was a reference to the intellectual capital/labor of Einstein and others, but the same holds true today.  This safe haven for intellectual labor should remain so, imho)

Well said.  It's crazy that we invite the world's best and the brightest to attend our universities, and then ask most to leave when their student visas expire.  I don't know about other states, but at colleges in California the engineering departments are full of students from Asia.  Let's do what we can to keep that brain trust here.

when I entered grad school at UT, I came in with a group of 9 chinese, 2 russians, an Indian, and me.  Naturally the Indian chick and I became buddies because we both spoke english.  When I went to BU, I came in with 6 americans, 4 chinese, two Rumanians, an Indian, and a Turk.  As far as I know, most still live in the US, but under duress.  And they all claim it's getting harder to immigrate here.  My wife, from China, has a sister and brother-in-law who desperately want to come here, but legally.  They have managed to immigrate from China to St. Katherine's Ontario, and are still working on getting US visas.  So far they have been denied, even though they have immunization records, advanced degrees, steady jobs and job prospects, and one of them even has a degree from an accredited university in the US.

My grandparents, on the other hand, were all poor white trash with no money, no jobs, no anything.  But they got in legally and easily.  So, is there a racist component to our entry processes?  Maybe, but then the Rumanians claim that they're treated like non-white immigrants, so maybe not.  Hard to say.  If you look at the numbers, most of our immigrants come from China and Mexico these days, so it's not surprising that the government has to crack down hardest on those groups. 

I know a person who is both a citizen of Russia and a citizen of Israel who had a hell of a time getting permission to work here.  He said it wasn't like (nuclear proliferation treaty non-signatory nation citizen) times two, but more like (nptnsns)-squared, in order to get a work visa.  Still, he's well and living in California and earning a very good wage and paying taxes and contributing to the local and national economy.  Just takes more patience when you're from a non-friendly country (as long as you're white!)

[Bogart]

Here's a good one. My uncle, while living in Florida, married a Canadian--a Canadian--lady who was also living in working in Florida. They returned to Ottawa where her family was from to be married, with every intention of returning to Florida. When the hit the US border, Customs wouldn't let her back in. She had been here legally while single but now was not allowed to return despite now being married to an American.

[angus]

Here's a good one. My uncle, while living in Florida, married a Canadian--a Canadian--lady who was also living in working in Florida. They returned to Ottawa where her family was from to be married, with every intention of returning to Florida. When the hit the US border, Customs wouldn't let her back in. She had been here legally while single but now was not allowed to return despite now being married to an American.

if my wife leaves the country today, she cannot return.  She was allowed to come and go before we were married.  (That's a gross oversimplification, but true nevertheless.)

Remember, the INS gave Mohammed Atta his visa several days after he wrecked a plane into the World Trade Center.  That pretty much sums up the incompetence over there.

Surrealism is grand, ain't it?

[Platypus]

the US immigration policies don't quite compare to the White Australia Policy, where immigration officials were allowed to ask questions in any european language to determine if arivals would be allowed to enter. Famus examples include an immigration official asking a Czech questions in Scottish Gaelic, and a whole boat of Cypriots questions in Danish.

When the policy was being debated in the late 1950s, the socially ultra-conservative leader of the LP (I forget his name now, Evatt I think) famously said on the topic of asian immigration in parliament (probably the most famous thing ever said in Australian parliament) "Two wongs don't make a white". The Liberals were no better at the time of course, but I'm sill pissed at the ALP for having that kind of drongo as party leader.

[phk]

the American Golden Age began with the rise of Gorbachev to 9/11.

[2952-0-0]

Economically, yes. The dollar's influence is vaporising as you read this. Militarily, no, but in the long term, yes. Remember how the Soviet Union went? They had a kickass economy in the 50s but then spent too much on their military in the 60s and 70s.

[Schmitz in 1972]

I would say the current peak is 1999 (Dow tops 10,000, Republicans almost give Bill Clinton what he deserves, the Cold War is over, and terrorism is not a big worry), but I have complete confidence that more peaks will follow. 1973 a peak? C'mon, the first year that sees abortion legalized nationwide is by no means a peak.