Is "Compulsory National Service" a form of Slavery?
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  Is "Compulsory National Service" a form of Slavery?		 « previous next »
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Author Topic: Is "Compulsory National Service" a form of Slavery?  (Read 5590 times)
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« on: October 14, 2010, 12:27:00 PM »
Yes
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 12:45:21 PM »
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 12:47:44 PM »
I'm assuming you mean military service?  No.

Something else?  Probably.
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tpfkaw
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 02:10:00 PM »
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 02:22:35 PM »
It obviously is slavery.
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Frink
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 02:30:26 PM »
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 03:03:41 PM »
     I would not refer to it as slavery, since doing such invites charges of hyperbole & helps belittle the real sentiment opposing it. With that said, it is a disgusting practice that no government should even entertain forcing on its citizens.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM »
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM »
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.

What about Israel?  Oh they have plenty of willing men and women but their military personnel needs are so great.  So they don't deserve to exist?
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Frink
Lafayette53
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 03:47:58 PM »
Quote from: Gramps on October 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.

What about Israel?  Oh they have plenty of willing men and women but their military personnel needs are so great.  So they don't deserve to exist?

Whether Israel or any other nation "deserves to exist" is irrelevant.
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Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 04:34:05 PM »
By compulsory national service, I meant the kind of thing proposed by Herr Rahm Emmanuel.
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Sewer
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 04:50:09 PM »
"Slavery is a system in which people are the property of others" So no.

But it fits involuntary servitude better: "Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion."
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Frink
Lafayette53
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 05:19:58 PM »
Quote from: Midwest Governor Sewer on October 14, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
"Slavery is a system in which people are the property of others" So no.

But it fits involuntary servitude better: "Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion."

Slavery makes for better hyperbole Tongue
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 05:25:27 PM »
Quote from: Foster on October 14, 2010, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Gramps on October 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.

What about Israel?  Oh they have plenty of willing men and women but their military personnel needs are so great.  So they don't deserve to exist?

Whether Israel or any other nation "deserves to exist" is irrelevant.

Winston made it relevant.  I'll wait for his opinion.
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SPC
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 05:27:24 PM »
Is a bear crapping in the woods a form of defecation?
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 05:36:19 PM »
Quote from: Midwest Governor Sewer on October 14, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
"Slavery is a system in which people are the property of others" So no.

But it fits involuntary servitude better: "Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion."

All citizens are the property of the State. The military draft is an expression of this reality. It's slavery.
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Franzl
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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 07:46:53 PM »
Not by the literal definition of slavery....but it's unacceptable just the same.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 08:10:21 PM »
No, and calling it such is insulting to the millions of Americans who actually were slaves. The fact that having to do community service for a year is even being compared to actual slavery is disgusting, though not surprising, considering the white, middle-class suburbanite tilt of this forum.
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Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 08:40:15 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2010, 08:42:56 PM by Herp Derp »
Quote from: Lief on October 14, 2010, 08:10:21 PM
No, and calling it such is insulting to the millions of Americans who actually were slaves. The fact that having to do community service for a year is even being compared to actual slavery is disgusting, though not surprising, considering the white, middle-class suburbanite tilt of this forum.

The only differences between what is proposed by the likes of Chuck Rangel and Rahm Emmanuel, and the historical institution of slavery, are that it's the government forcing you to work, rather than a plantation owner, and instead of being whipped or beaten, you are - I assume - fined or imprisoned.  It's still forced labor, and there are still consequences to refusing to do it.

I thought the Constitution was a "living document."  The Thirteenth Amendment outlaws "involuntary servitude," yet somehow only the historical interpretation applies.  Hm...
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 09:10:36 PM »
You really are an offensive idiot. Congratulations on making opposition to peacetime conscription seem prickish; that takes some skill. And you have it.
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Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2010, 09:38:53 PM »
Quote from: Arawn on October 14, 2010, 09:10:36 PM
You really are an offensive idiot. Congratulations on making opposition to peacetime conscription seem prickish; that takes some skill. And you have it.

No need to be a dick to me.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2010, 03:04:59 AM »
Quote from: Gramps on October 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.

What about Israel?  Oh they have plenty of willing men and women but their military personnel needs are so great.  So they don't deserve to exist?

Israel deserves to exist, but they shouldnt use conscription - however, Syria also uses conscription, so it's not like it is without precedent.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2010, 08:05:02 AM »
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 15, 2010, 03:04:59 AM
Quote from: Gramps on October 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
Quote from: BURNING INSIDE on October 14, 2010, 03:26:59 PM
Yes. Any country which can't find troops to voluntarily fight for it doesn't deserve to exist.

What about Israel?  Oh they have plenty of willing men and women but their military personnel needs are so great.  So they don't deserve to exist?

Israel deserves to exist, but they shouldnt use conscription - however, Syria also uses conscription, so it's not like it is without precedent.

Oh, true.  Greece uses it (or used to) and many other countries do........it's viewed as "repulsive" here because we can't envision our troops being so depleted by conflict that we'd need it.....and we have a large population, but it is s.o.p. in some of the world.

This page has an interesting conscription map at the top right.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2010, 04:03:11 AM »
Quote from: Lief on October 14, 2010, 08:10:21 PM
No, and calling it such is insulting to the millions of Americans who actually were slaves. The fact that having to do community service for a year is even being compared to actual slavery is disgusting, though not surprising, considering the white, middle-class suburbanite tilt of this forum.
Exactly.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 04:04:45 AM »
In fairness, the question asks if it's a form of slavery, not if it's exactly the same.  Big difference.
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