Would you consider this person an evangelical?
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  Would you consider this person an evangelical?
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Question: Do you consider the person described below evangelical?
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Author Topic: Would you consider this person an evangelical?  (Read 12105 times)
Kodratos
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« on: November 14, 2004, 03:16:47 PM »

There is a guy named Steve. He was raised a Methodist and is still a member of The United Methodist Church. On Sunday's he attends an Episcopal church. When he visits his Catholic brother he attends a Catholic church, where he is friends with the priest there. He has never spoken ill of another Christian denomination. He has never claimed to be a part of the Christian-right, nor has he ever affiliated himself with any evangelical group. He has never belonged to an evangelical church in his life.

He does however pray regularly, and is open about his faith. He often seeks guidance in the Bible. For this he is accused of being a fundamentalist wacko, a follower of Robertson and Falwell.

Is he evangelical?
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2004, 03:20:27 PM »

Does he try to convert anyone and everyone?

If yes, yes, he is.
If no, no, he is not.

(Is he from the South?  This will change my answer... Southern Methodists are typically quite evangelical)
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John Dibble
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2004, 03:21:09 PM »

Sounds like a good Christian to me. Does he respect the choice of non-Christians not to be Christian?
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Kodratos
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2004, 03:23:16 PM »

Ilikeverin, no he doesn't try to convert people, and no he isn't really from the south.

JohnDibble, he does respect the choice of others to be non-Christians. He has non-christian/non-religious friends and often speaks well of Jews and Muslims.
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Bono
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2004, 03:25:33 PM »

Is he an arminian? Does he attend revivalist concerts worship services?
If so, than he is. If not, he probabily isn't.
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angus
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2004, 03:25:36 PM »

There is a guy named Steve. He was raised a Methodist and is still a member of The United Methodist Church. On Sunday's he attends an Episcopal church. When he visits his Catholic brother he attends a Catholic church, where he is friends with the priest there. He has never spoken ill of another Christian denomination. He has never claimed to be a part of the Christian-right, nor has he ever affiliated himself with any evangelical group. He has never belonged to an evangelical church in his life.

He does however pray regularly, and is open about his faith. He often seeks guidance in the Bible. For this he is accused of being a fundamentalist wacko, a follower of Robertson and Falwell.

Is he evangelical?


I'm not a Greek major, but as I understand the term, it means something like:  relating to, or being in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels.

so, yeah.  but then I'm no religious scholar.  Anyone know what the word 'evangel' or 'evangelical' means?  Here's a webster's definition:  emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual.

once, again.  yes.

Ilikeverin, what you smoking?  It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be.  It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat.  Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.
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Kodratos
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2004, 03:27:56 PM »

Is he an arminian? Does he attend revivalist concerts worship services?
If so, than he is. If not, he probabily isn't.

He doesn't attend revivals or Christian Rock concerts(he's more of a country fan). He isn't Arminian either.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2004, 03:28:43 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2004, 03:30:22 PM by supersoulty »

Yes.  According to the Left, all Christians who are serious are evangelical, racist wackos, regardless of their veiws on tollerance or their denomination.

p.s. I don't think that evangelical is a bad word or an insult, but it has basically become one.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2004, 03:28:58 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2004, 03:32:47 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.

How can one be a part of any religion at all, whether Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or just all around "Christian", unless they believe it to be the "most correct"?  That isn't saying that other people are going to Hell.  It is amazing how wacked out and intollerant the Left's veiw of the world is when it comes to religion and religious people.
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angus
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2004, 03:33:58 PM »

Zen, on the other hand, refers to 'enlightenment through direct meditation'

Funny how all these different sects of Buddhism bash each other, calling each other 'the lesser vehicle' and 'elitist' and 'bastardized forms of true buddhism'

apparently different sects of christianity do that too.

Nothing wrong with being Zen.  Nothing wrong with being Evangelical.

the more I read your post, the more convinced I am that he is an evangelical protestant.  and there's nothing wrong with that.  So tell those assholes calling him wackos to get their minds out of the gutter.  They're intolerant.  I smell the beginnings of a Final Solution with regards to the Christian Right.  Y'all better step up to the plate and speak out if you don't want yourself marginalized by those intolerant 'secularists' and rounded up and sent off to gas chambers.  You're thinking:  No, it can't happen here.  Think again.  It can.  I'll speak out as much as I can, but being an agnostic I can't say that have a personal investment in the matter.  You'd better speak out for yourselves.

(end of rant)
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Bono
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2004, 03:35:26 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.

We are called to preach God's word.
Romans 10: 14-15
 14   How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15   And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1 Corinthians 1:21
 21   For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2004, 03:37:25 PM »

JohnDibble, he does respect the choice of others to be non-Christians. He has non-christian/non-religious friends and often speaks well of Jews and Muslims.

Then, I stand by my earlier statement - he's just a good Christian. Christianity teaches tolerance, and even if he preaches his ways to others, he respects the right of others to decide on their own, and gets along with them as his fellow man.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2004, 03:37:40 PM »

Sure, we can preach, but it seems to me that most evangelicals, while saying how good Christianity is, also say how bad the person's current religion is.  Or how they're atheist and are thus going to Hell.  Or some such.

(Anyway, I'm with Dibble on this one)
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2004, 03:41:02 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.

How can one be a part of any religion at all, whether Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or just all around "Christian", unless they believe it to be the "most correct"?

I never said I don't believe it's the 'most correct'.  I said I don't think there is a 'best' religion.

Until proven otherwise, I think Methodism is the 'most correct' religion, but I don't want to force that on other people.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2004, 03:41:33 PM »

Just a good Christian, who sees beyond the denominational rows.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2004, 03:43:16 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.

How can one be a part of any religion at all, whether Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or just all around "Christian", unless they believe it to be the "most correct"?  That isn't saying that other people are going to Hell.  It is amazing how wacked out and intollerant the Left's veiw of the world is when it comes to religion and religious people.

Intolerance begets intolerance, unfortunately. True Christians are tolerant, but there are those who claim to be Christian but do not really follow the religion's teachings. For instance, there is a group that comes on my college campus every now and then and they tell people 'repent or burn' and they tell women that they need to go be subservient housewives or they'll go to hell too. So, of course some people are going to take offense, and as is human nature they will often hate those that offended them, and sometimes group those who are in the same group, even though they are different.
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angus
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2004, 03:44:37 PM »

And to rant a bit from the other side:  Just don't start trying to replace the teaching of science in public schools with religion.  You'll just engender more intolerance if you try to blur the line of separation between church and state.  Not that the intolerance is excusable, but, under those circumstances it's predictable.

Also, see the article I stole from the Dallas Morning News in the "Democrats and Religion" thread. 

And I'm not with Dibble on this one.  We're so goddamned politically correct that we're afraid to call a spade a spade.  If he's truly 'evangelical' as we understand the word.  Then why not embrace it?  Just like a Zen Buddhist is no more or less Buddhist than other Buddhists, or just as Wahabbi Muslims are no more or less Muslim than other Muslims, and just as Reform Jews are no more or less Jewish than Orthodox Jews, Evangelical Christians are no more or less Christian than Roman Catholics or Mormons or Mainstream Protestants, or Copts or anyone else. 
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angus
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2004, 03:46:09 PM »

okay, this time for real:  end of rant  Smiley
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Bono
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2004, 03:46:58 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2004, 05:25:03 PM by Senator Bono »

Sure, we can preach, but it seems to me that most evangelicals, while saying how good Christianity is, also say how bad the person's current religion is.  Or how they're atheist and are thus going to Hell.  Or some such.

(Anyway, I'm with Dibble on this one)


Christiananity, or at least the true form os Christianity, which we call Calvinism(EDIT: Grin ), teaches salvation by faith alone. That means that everyone who does not become regenerate through God's grace in Jesus Christ does not have possibility of salvation. Why are we bad because we preach that in which we believe?
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angus
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2004, 03:52:48 PM »

Yeah, but you gotta realize the manifestations of Calvinism in this country (e.g., Southern Baptist Convention, BMAA, etc.) are about a world apart from the calvinists in the 'bible belt' of Holland, for example (as the dutch refer to Limberg, etc.)  Day and Night.  Also, you're right that the Romans bastardized Christianity in a way that might be offensive to the purists, but that doesn't make Catholics any less Christian than Protestants.  Again, this is the same silliness that goes on in all religions.  The fighting in Iraq, for example, once we leave will be an example of this phenomenon.  Just watch.  Surely, neither the Christ, nor the Buddha, nor the Prophet Mohammed, nor Moses would want to see such intra-religious squabbles and some sects calling other sects 'lesser vehicles.' 
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Kodratos
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2004, 03:55:53 PM »

Yeah, but you gotta realize the manifestations of Calvinism in this country (e.g., Southern Baptist Convention, BMAA, etc.)

Baptists aren't Calvinists, Presbyterians and the Reformed Chuch are.
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Bono
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2004, 04:02:51 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2004, 04:16:35 PM by Senator Bono »

Yeah, but you gotta realize the manifestations of Calvinism in this country (e.g., Southern Baptist Convention, BMAA, etc.)

Baptists aren't Calvinists, Presbyterians and the Reformed Chuch are.

Yup, and some Congregationalists also(not UCC congregationalits, I even have trouble calling that a 'church', but NACCC congregationalists and independent ones). Also some Baptists, whom mostly call themselves Primitive Baptists Some Baptists in the SBC are actually Calvinists too, but Calvinism is not on teh denomination's statement of faith.
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angus
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2004, 04:08:04 PM »

Hmmm.  Seems I'm in over my head.  I find Religion, like economics and politics, a fascinating subject, but I always manage to humiliate myself when I get around religious (or economic or political) scholars.  At the risk of further embarassment, I thought that, since they seemed to agree on predestination, the main point of contention between Luther and Calvin was simply a controversy about the Last Supper, and a general disdain, by the latter, of scholasticism.  In this sense, aren't SBC and BMAA churches somewhat calvinistic?
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Bono
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2004, 04:21:48 PM »

Hmmm.  Seems I'm in over my head.  I find Religion, like economics and politics, a fascinating subject, but I always manage to humiliate myself when I get around religious (or economic or political) scholars.  At the risk of further embarassment, I thought that, since they seemed to agree on predestination, the main point of contention between Luther and Calvin was simply a controversy about the Last Supper, and a general disdain, by the latter, of scholasticism.  In this sense, aren't SBC and BMAA churches somewhat calvinistic?

Baptism derivated from Anabaptism, which is the branch that the Amish and Mennonnite Churches, and the Quakers belong to. The anabaptist movement was target of both Luther and Calvin's condemnation. Altough, the Baptist doctrine this days is much more Calvinis-friendly, most Baptists espouse Arminianism, or Weslseianism.
Actually, the difference between Luther and Calvin themselves was not that great, altough Calvin was much more intransigent. The real breakaway between Lutheransn and Calvinism happened when Melanchton removed double predestination from Lutheranism. And besides, Luther never focused as much n predestination as Calvin did. Also, they differed in matters of Church governance, and on limited attonement.
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