Would you consider this person an evangelical? (user search)
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  Would you consider this person an evangelical? (search mode)
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Question: Do you consider the person described below evangelical?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 29

Author Topic: Would you consider this person an evangelical?  (Read 12316 times)
12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« on: November 14, 2004, 03:28:43 PM »
« edited: November 14, 2004, 03:30:22 PM by supersoulty »

Yes.  According to the Left, all Christians who are serious are evangelical, racist wackos, regardless of their veiws on tollerance or their denomination.

p.s. I don't think that evangelical is a bad word or an insult, but it has basically become one.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2004, 03:32:47 PM »

Ilikeverin, what you smoking? It's not an insulting term, or shouldn't be. It's like Socialism, or Fascism, Republican, or Democrat. Just a word that, while having emotionally charged nuance to some, needn't be an insulting word to anyone.

While I never said that right out, congrats, you got my [not-so-]subtle undertone Smiley

Yes, I think evangelicalism (I doubt that's a word Tongue) is a bad thing, because, to me, it suggests that you think your religion is out-and-out superior to another, not just different.

How can one be a part of any religion at all, whether Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or just all around "Christian", unless they believe it to be the "most correct"?  That isn't saying that other people are going to Hell.  It is amazing how wacked out and intollerant the Left's veiw of the world is when it comes to religion and religious people.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2004, 05:23:24 PM »



Christiananity, or at least the true form os Christianity, which we call Calvinism, teaches salvation by faith alone.

Well, you just proved this man's point.  Personally, I think Calvanism is BS, but I would not go around telling anyone that Catholism is the "true" form of Christianity no matter how much I believe that to be true.  Personally, I take offense to your comments, but you have every right to be as big a moron as you want to be.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2004, 05:32:32 PM »

Geez, smiley ommission is really a serious offense.

Well, I'm sorry, but the truth is that all of Calvanism is based on one word that was added to the bible simply because Luther thought that it should be there:

Man is saved by faith alone

The word "alone" appears nowhere in any of the original texts that exist today.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2004, 07:43:00 PM »

Yes.  According to the Left, all Christians who are serious are evangelical, racist wackos, regardless of their veiws on tollerance or their denomination.

p.s. I don't think that evangelical is a bad word or an insult, but it has basically become one.

AHAHAHAHAHA, thanks for the laugh. I guess my left wing extremist self must consider myself an evangelical racist wacko.

to answer the question: no

Well, your pretty rare in that respect then.  I know that you have expressed your Christianity in the past.  I respect that all the more because it is all to rare for someone of your admittedly exreme political leanings.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 02:19:11 PM »
« Edited: November 15, 2004, 02:22:42 PM by supersoulty »

Geez, smiley ommission is really a serious offense.

Well, I'm sorry, but the truth is that all of Calvanism is based on one word that was added to the bible simply because Luther thought that it should be there:

Man is saved by faith alone

The word "alone" appears nowhere in any of the original texts that exist today.
Have you ever read Romans 3? Even if we take out the 28, the works alone still stands.
And what about Romans 3: 1-5
 1   What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2   For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3   For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4   Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5   But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Oh, dear Lord.  King James?  Come back to me when you have a real translation of the Bible.  This is how that passage read in the original text:

1
1 What advantage is there then in being a Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?
2
Much, in every respect. (For) in the first place, they were entrusted with the utterances of God.
3
What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God?
4
Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: "That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged."
5
But if our wickedness provides proof of God's righteousness, what can we say? Is God unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath?

Ever read James 2: 14-26?


14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


This, of course, comes from the book that both Luther and Calvin wanted removed, simply because they knew that it disagreed with their message.

If you are going to believe in Sola Scriptura, the least you can do is get a decent bible that goes back to what was acctually said in the earliest known texts.
 
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 03:05:37 PM »

Geez, smiley ommission is really a serious offense.

Well, I'm sorry, but the truth is that all of Calvanism is based on one word that was added to the bible simply because Luther thought that it should be there:

Man is saved by faith alone

The word "alone" appears nowhere in any of the original texts that exist today.
Have you ever read Romans 3? Even if we take out the 28, the works alone still stands.
And what about Romans 3: 1-5
 1   What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2   For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3   For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4   Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5   But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Oh, dear Lord.  King James?  Come back to me when you have a real translation of the Bible.  This is how that passage read in the original text:

1
1 What advantage is there then in being a Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?
2
Much, in every respect. (For) in the first place, they were entrusted with the utterances of God.
3
What if some were unfaithful? Will their infidelity nullify the fidelity of God?
4
Of course not! God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: "That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged."
5
But if our wickedness provides proof of God's righteousness, what can we say? Is God unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath?

Ever read James 2: 14-26?


14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


This, of course, comes from the book that both Luther and Calvin wanted removed, simply because they knew that it disagreed with their message.

If you are going to believe in Sola Scriptura, the least you can do is get a decent bible that goes back to what was acctually said in the earliest known texts.
 

Ok, I'll use Young's Literal Translation AND American Standart Version(anything but the NIV)

YLT

Romans 3: 27-28
 27   Where then [is] the boasting? it was excluded; by what law? of works? no, but by a law of faith:
28   therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law.

ASV
Romans 3: 27-28
 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith.
28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

YLT
Romans 4:1-5
 1   What, then, shall we say Abraham our father, to have found, according to flesh?
2   for if Abraham by works was declared righteous, he hath to boast -- but not before god;
3   for what doth the writing say? `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him -- to righteousness;'
4   and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
5   and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness:

ASV
Romans 4:1-5
 1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God.
3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.



I have no time to discuss this right now, only to say that you originally quoted the wrong verse and that was the sourse of the confusion.  I will get back to you on this.
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