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When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Topic: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power? (Read 3233 times)
LBJ Revivalist
ModerateDemocrat1990
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When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
on:
October 30, 2010, 04:21:25 am »
Well...Which British Monarch was the last to wield any real executive power?
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Platypus
hughento
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #1 on:
October 30, 2010, 09:38:02 am »
Representatives of the crown, state Governors and the Commonwealth G-G, have weilded power a few times. Most recently in the aftermath of the last Tasmanian election, when the Governor basically forced together the ALP and Greens in a governing coalition.
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The Mikado
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #2 on:
October 30, 2010, 01:42:12 pm »
A very, very hard question, as a good deal of royal power has to do with royal influence. I suppose if you were looking at it from a literal standpoint, you could say George IV, but denying Victoria's informal influence on the political process.
EDIT: I assume you meant really blatant, obvious powers like appointing/firing cabinet ministers and such.
«
Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 04:23:56 pm by The Mikado
»
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Hatman
EarlAW
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #3 on:
October 30, 2010, 04:00:56 pm »
GG Michaelle Jean used her power to prorogue Parliament 2 years ago.
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Sibboleth
Realpolitik
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #4 on:
October 31, 2010, 09:20:28 pm »
George V played a minor role in the establishment of the National Government, but that was an influence issue rather than the use of 'real power' (whatever that is). It is certainly interesting to note that representatives of the crown are much more likely to use their theoretical powers than the monarch is here; the Whitlam dismissal would not have been possible in Britain, and in the aftermath of the General Election the people with power pushing for a quick coalition deal were the current generation of Sir Humphrey's, rather than people from the palace.
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StatesRights
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #5 on:
October 31, 2010, 10:54:40 pm »
Quote from: Shatov's Cap on October 31, 2010, 09:20:28 pm
George V played a minor role in the establishment of the National Government, but that was an influence issue rather than the use of 'real power' (whatever that is). It is certainly interesting to note that representatives of the crown are much more likely to use their theoretical powers than the monarch is here; the Whitlam dismissal would not have been possible in Britain, and in the aftermath of the General Election the people with power pushing for a quick coalition deal were the current generation of Sir Humphrey's, rather than people from the palace.
Could the Queen force her hand back in the game if she wanted to?
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Sibboleth
Realpolitik
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #6 on:
October 31, 2010, 11:11:36 pm »
Quote from: StatesRights on October 31, 2010, 10:54:40 pm
Could the Queen force her hand back in the game if she wanted to?
No; convention makes it impossible.
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'Gentlemen, a desert. A place of savage reference for the good people of Ohio. A place to fear and love. A blasted region. Something to remind us what we hewed out of. A place without malls. An Other for Ohio's Self. Cacti and scorpions and the sun bearing down. Desolation. A place for people to wander alone. To reflect. Away from everything. Gentlemen, a desert.'
Senator Kalwejt
Kalwejt
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #7 on:
November 01, 2010, 07:18:12 am »
Quote from: Shatov's Cap on October 31, 2010, 11:11:36 pm
Quote from: StatesRights on October 31, 2010, 10:54:40 pm
Could the Queen force her hand back in the game if she wanted to?
No; convention makes it impossible.
Don't f**k with the Parliament
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Senator Ben
benconstine
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #8 on:
November 06, 2010, 11:29:25 am »
Probably Victoria, in terms of real influence.
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Јas
Jas
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #9 on:
November 08, 2010, 04:21:27 am »
Depends. Some possibilities...
Anne's refusal to sign the Scottish Militia Bill, 1708
William IV's dismissal of Melbourne, 1834
George V's deal with Asquith on Liberal peers, 1910
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Funny 'cause it's true:
Quote from: Gustaf on April 03, 2007, 08:54:07 am
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.
Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #10 on:
November 08, 2010, 09:59:21 am »
Quote from: R.I.P. Southern Democrats on October 31, 2010, 10:54:40 pm
Quote from: Shatov's Cap on October 31, 2010, 09:20:28 pm
George V played a minor role in the establishment of the National Government, but that was an influence issue rather than the use of 'real power' (whatever that is). It is certainly interesting to note that representatives of the crown are much more likely to use their theoretical powers than the monarch is here; the Whitlam dismissal would not have been possible in Britain, and in the aftermath of the General Election the people with power pushing for a quick coalition deal were the current generation of Sir Humphrey's, rather than people from the palace.
Could the Queen force her hand back in the game if she wanted to?
She might try that. If she wants her country to become a Republic.
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
Liberate yourself from Free Will
Kitty's beardgrowing advice to Mitty.
J. J.
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Posts: 31872
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #11 on:
November 08, 2010, 04:36:27 pm »
I would say, quite clearly, in 1911. The King, George V, committed to creating enough peers to pass the Parliament Act. He could have said no.
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J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Χahar
Xahar
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Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #12 on:
November 09, 2010, 05:04:03 pm »
The current monarch has on one occasion personally selected the Prime Minister.
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J. J.
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Posts: 31872
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
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Reply #13 on:
November 09, 2010, 05:08:30 pm »
Quote from: Χahar on November 09, 2010, 05:04:03 pm
The current monarch has on one occasion personally selected the Prime Minister.
True, but on the advice of the previous prime minister.
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J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Χahar
Xahar
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Posts: 36850
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #14 on:
November 09, 2010, 08:13:06 pm »
Quote from: J. J. on November 09, 2010, 05:08:30 pm
Quote from: Χahar on November 09, 2010, 05:04:03 pm
The current monarch has on one occasion personally selected the Prime Minister.
True, but on the advice of the previous prime minister.
Not in the typical sense of "advice". The prior prime minister's adivce was not in that case binding.
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dialectical fetishist
Winston Disraeli
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Posts: 12196
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #15 on:
November 15, 2010, 07:47:45 am »
George V was the last to threaten to use any real power.
Last one really was Anne though.
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J. J.
YaBB God
Posts: 31872
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #16 on:
November 15, 2010, 10:47:07 am »
Quote from: Χahar on November 09, 2010, 08:13:06 pm
Quote from: J. J. on November 09, 2010, 05:08:30 pm
Quote from: Χahar on November 09, 2010, 05:04:03 pm
The current monarch has on one occasion personally selected the Prime Minister.
True, but on the advice of the previous prime minister.
Not in the typical sense of "advice". The prior prime minister's adivce was not in that case binding.
Well, legally, none of any prime minister's advice is binding. This was somewhat analogous to asking the leader of a party, with a clear majority, to form a government, and the leader does, without putting himself in it.
One suggestion that I have read would a prime minister's questionable use nuclear weapons. One former defense chief indicated that he would appeal a questionable order to the Queen.
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J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Senator Kalwejt
Kalwejt
YaBB God
Posts: 35719
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #17 on:
November 30, 2010, 10:48:26 am »
Quote from: Χahar on November 09, 2010, 05:04:03 pm
The current monarch has on one occasion personally selected the Prime Minister.
Douglas-Home?
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Vasall des Midas
Lewis Trondheim
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Posts: 56582
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #18 on:
November 30, 2010, 11:25:59 am »
Quote from: J. J. on November 08, 2010, 04:36:27 pm
I would say, quite clearly, in 1911. The King, George V, committed to creating enough peers to pass the Parliament Act. He could have said no.
If he had wanted Britain to become a Republic.
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
Liberate yourself from Free Will
Kitty's beardgrowing advice to Mitty.
J. J.
YaBB God
Posts: 31872
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #19 on:
December 05, 2010, 04:21:31 pm »
Quote from: fierce bad gobsh!te on November 30, 2010, 11:25:59 am
Quote from: J. J. on November 08, 2010, 04:36:27 pm
I would say, quite clearly, in 1911. The King, George V, committed to creating enough peers to pass the Parliament Act. He could have said no.
If he had wanted Britain to become a Republic.
The budget has been passed. England would
not
have been a republic.
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J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
So the Heroes Fall
BRTD
YaBB God
Posts: 68111
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #20 on:
December 06, 2010, 09:38:46 pm »
If the Queen did try to force her hand Parliament could always use the Belgian loophole, declare her unfit to serve and appoint the PM regent. Becoming a Republic would end a lot of tourism dollars which I don't think anyone would want to have happen.
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ag
Moderators
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Posts: 5312
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #21 on:
December 08, 2010, 08:12:07 pm »
Quote from: commit the sin, not the sinner on November 08, 2010, 09:59:21 am
Quote from: R.I.P. Southern Democrats on October 31, 2010, 10:54:40 pm
Quote from: Shatov's Cap on October 31, 2010, 09:20:28 pm
George V played a minor role in the establishment of the National Government, but that was an influence issue rather than the use of 'real power' (whatever that is). It is certainly interesting to note that representatives of the crown are much more likely to use their theoretical powers than the monarch is here; the Whitlam dismissal would not have been possible in Britain, and in the aftermath of the General Election the people with power pushing for a quick coalition deal were the current generation of Sir Humphrey's, rather than people from the palace.
Could the Queen force her hand back in the game if she wanted to?
She might try that. If she wants her country to become a Republic.
Mostly, you are right. But there could be circumstances, where that would not be the case. She, probably, can't be the first one to violate the constitutional conventions, but if an unpopular Parliament were to do this first, her role would not be negligible. For instance, if an unpopular radical PM were to try to indefinitely postpone elections beyond the conventional 5-year term (even passing an appropriate law through the Parliament), I could imagine the Queen refusing to go along and the Monarchy only being strengthened after the ensuing rucus . So, her passive role as a constitutional guarantor is not to be entirely dismissed, though, of course, in practice its exercise remains far from the actual political equilibrium.
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dialectical fetishist
Winston Disraeli
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Posts: 12196
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #22 on:
December 10, 2010, 06:11:04 am »
Quote from: What I wouldn't give for a million smaller problems on December 06, 2010, 09:38:46 pm
If the Queen did try to force her hand Parliament could always use the Belgian loophole, declare her unfit to serve and appoint the PM regent. Becoming a Republic would end a lot of tourism dollars which I don't think anyone would want to have happen.
France hasn't had a monarchy for quite a while now and it doesn't seem to deter tourists from going to Versailles.
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J. J.
YaBB God
Posts: 31872
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #23 on:
December 10, 2010, 10:10:54 am »
Quote from: What I wouldn't give for a million smaller problems on December 06, 2010, 09:38:46 pm
If the Queen did try to force her hand Parliament could always use the Belgian loophole, declare her unfit to serve and appoint the PM regent. Becoming a Republic would end a lot of tourism dollars which I don't think anyone would want to have happen.
I doubt that a PM would ever be appointed regent. While they could change statute there is a "Regency Statute."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regency_Acts#Regency_Act_1937
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J. J.
"Actually, .. now that you mention it...."
- Londo Molari
"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke
"Wa sala, wa lala."
(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Јas
Jas
YaBB God
Posts: 9627
Re: When was the last time the British Monarchy had or used any real power?
«
Reply #24 on:
January 18, 2013, 03:25:06 pm »
Secret papers show extent of senior royals' veto over bills
-
grauniad
Quote from: The Guardian
Whitehall papers prepared by Cabinet Office lawyers show that overall at least 39 bills have been subject to the most senior royals' little-known power to consent to or block new laws. They also reveal the power has been used to torpedo proposed legislation relating to decisions about the country going to war.
...
The new laws that were required to receive the seal of approval from the Queen or Prince Charles cover issues from higher education and paternity pay to identity cards and child maintenance.
In one instance the Queen completely vetoed the Military Actions Against Iraq Bill in 1999, a private member's bill that sought to transfer the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq from the monarch to parliament.
She was even asked to consent to the Civil Partnership Act 2004 because it contained a declaration about the validity of a civil partnership that would bind her.
In the pamphlet, the Parliamentary Counsel warns civil servants that if consent is not forthcoming there is a risk "a major plank of the bill must be removed".
...
Charles has been asked to consent to 20 pieces of legislation and this power of veto has been described by constitutional lawyers as a royal "nuclear deterrent" that may help explain why ministers appear to pay close attention to the views of senior royals.
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Funny 'cause it's true:
Quote from: Gustaf on April 03, 2007, 08:54:07 am
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.
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