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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: November 15, 2010, 10:11:44 pm »
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Caucus Act

1.  Henceforth within the Atlasian Senate from this point there shall be composed a majority and minority caucus.
2.  Each caucus shall be formed as a result of the votes from the Senate's President Pro Tempore.  The President Pro Tempore shall also serve as the head of the majority caucus.
3.  The Minority Caucus shall also thereafter support another member of the Senate as a Senate Minority Leader.  This Minority Leader shall be elected by a majority vote of the minority caucus.
4.  Each President Pro Tempore and Minority Leader shall be elected at the beginning of each new Senate.
5.  Any Senator who abstains from voting for President Pro Tempore may choose whether or not to join a caucus.
6.  Caucus Leaders shall have the right to refuse the membership of any prospective members of their caucus.

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 04:19:48 pm by Senator North Carolina Yankee »Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010, 10:14:51 pm »
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Jumping in...

As stated before, I, along with many others, believe the position of PPT is a non-partisan position. That's why I think there should be a simple election for PPT. Then, each caucus shall chose a leader, one being the majority leader and one being the minority leader. There would be a good chance that the a caucus leader will also be PPT.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 10:20:58 pm »
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This certainly has a littany of problems.

1. The current structure of this bill is unworkable because it does not amend the OSPR, and as such it is pointless. This needs to be restructured completely to avoid torpedoing the entire organization of the Senate. It needs to be an amendment to the OSPR for starters.


2. There is not point in having two organized caucuses in a body that consists of 10 members and there is so little of substantative policy differences that would unite/divide the Senate into two groups consistently.

3. What does the Majority and Minority do? What purpose do caucuses serve except to layer pointless organizations onto a body that will only serve as an anvil on the body's activity rather then to imporve its opperations. As the standard of improving functionality is not there, this is reform for reforms sake.

4. This essentially submits to partisanship in the Senate administration, something I prefer to avoid if at all possible.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 10:29:48 pm »
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We have a perfectly working Senate structure right now. What we need is to fine tune it as necessary but for most part seek to correct misinterpretations that the Senate organization needs to have partisan positions in such a small body. It takes one person to run the Senate. Right now there are three people (VP, PPT, and Dean) with the authority under the right circumstances to run the body. And no, Fritz and Kal, I am not saying we should go to two positions. Tongue I am saying lets not add even more positions, to divide up fewer and fewer responsibilities and circumstances under which they have responsibilities. The VP runs the Senate, if he chooses not to the PPT takes over, and then if the PPT is missing, then the Dean takes over.

Beyond that there is no real need to have any more positions. 

 
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 10:42:37 pm »
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Strongly oppose.

The PPT ought to be a non-partisan position. I realize that JCP senators will still support one of their own as PPT, as likewise for the RPP and the Popular Party. However, the PPT should not be the same person as the majority leader.

and in the US, the PPT is also separate from the senate majority leader.
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 12:31:57 am »
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Seems kinda pointless.
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 01:34:23 am »
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The main reason I've introduced this bill is in order to promote some debate on workings within the Senate.
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 07:21:40 am »
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As Yankee stated, there are already 3 position within Senate (VP, PPT, Dean). This is 10 members body, for Christ sake.

Oh, and suppouse what a hellhole Senate would be if this passed, since every single thing regarding Senate work now is provoking great controversies.
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2010, 11:58:02 am »
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I'll withdraw this bill.
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 05:35:20 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 07:04:55 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

The last Senate Majority Leader that came out ahead was George Mitchell for christs sake.

The main reason I've introduced this bill is in order to promote some debate on workings within the Senate.

Well you got more then you bargained for, then. Tongue


Its an interesting idea, but we have a simulation here, and certain characteristics of the simulation make such a reform as proposed impractical. 


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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 07:14:16 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 07:34:53 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB from Vermont. Wink
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 08:55:43 am »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 12:11:29 am »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 08:33:29 am »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue

Yes, Jeffords was so "power hungry" that he retired less than 4 years after the switch when he could've won re-election in a heartbeat. By "power hungry" I think you mean "unalterably fed up with southern far right theocrat control of the GOP", my friend. Wink
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 04:18:52 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue

Yes, Jeffords was so "power hungry" that he retired less than 4 years after the switch when he could've won re-election in a heartbeat. By "power hungry" I think you mean "unalterably fed up with southern far right theocrat control of the GOP", my friend. Wink

You know, Moderates whine that we need to accomodate them, and have a big tent. Yet when it turns around they rarely find it in themselves to support conservatives. Its telling that even as late as 2006, Chafee survived his primary challenge. The knocking off of moderates began that year but it certainly wasn't the impossibility it is now for a moderate to win a primary. The actions of Jeffords and Chafee in part, doomed Castle and possibly Snowe in 2012. Power hungry might have been a poor choice, but Jeffords was certainly arrogant and certainly didn't give a damn about strenthening and building up moderates within the GOP, nor did he care about Snowe, who tried to dissuade him from leaving the caucus. He could have become an Indy but stayed with the GOP caucus. That would have made his statement. He went the next step, depriving the GOP of its Senate majority. He did far more to destroy moderate Republicans, then Palin and Toomey did, in my opinion. He got his moment in the national news, he got a superior committee placement, and yes he did retire having succeeding to garner far more attention and influence then he deserved. I personally have know problem with moderate Republicans, but I do know self-serving arrogance when I see it, and I know counterproductivity when I see it.
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 09:18:21 am »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue

Yes, Jeffords was so "power hungry" that he retired less than 4 years after the switch when he could've won re-election in a heartbeat. By "power hungry" I think you mean "unalterably fed up with southern far right theocrat control of the GOP", my friend. Wink

You know, Moderates whine that we need to accomodate them, and have a big tent. Yet when it turns around they rarely find it in themselves to support conservatives. Its telling that even as late as 2006, Chafee survived his primary challenge. The knocking off of moderates began that year but it certainly wasn't the impossibility it is now for a moderate to win a primary. The actions of Jeffords and Chafee in part, doomed Castle and possibly Snowe in 2012. Power hungry might have been a poor choice, but Jeffords was certainly arrogant and certainly didn't give a damn about strenthening and building up moderates within the GOP, nor did he care about Snowe, who tried to dissuade him from leaving the caucus. He could have become an Indy but stayed with the GOP caucus. That would have made his statement. He went the next step, depriving the GOP of its Senate majority. He did far more to destroy moderate Republicans, then Palin and Toomey did, in my opinion. He got his moment in the national news, he got a superior committee placement, and yes he did retire having succeeding to garner far more attention and influence then he deserved. I personally have know problem with moderate Republicans, but I do know self-serving arrogance when I see it, and I know counterproductivity when I see it.


So it wasn't conservatives pushing out moderate views in the GOP--a process that began LONG before 2010--that caused Jeffords and other moderates to leave, it was the moderates refusal to support conservatives? It isn't the increasingly Tea Party dominated GOP base that voted out Castle and threatens Snowe, but the moderates themselves? Huh

Wow. That is some seriously revisionist history there Yank.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 06:09:19 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue

Yes, Jeffords was so "power hungry" that he retired less than 4 years after the switch when he could've won re-election in a heartbeat. By "power hungry" I think you mean "unalterably fed up with southern far right theocrat control of the GOP", my friend. Wink

You know, Moderates whine that we need to accomodate them, and have a big tent. Yet when it turns around they rarely find it in themselves to support conservatives. Its telling that even as late as 2006, Chafee survived his primary challenge. The knocking off of moderates began that year but it certainly wasn't the impossibility it is now for a moderate to win a primary. The actions of Jeffords and Chafee in part, doomed Castle and possibly Snowe in 2012. Power hungry might have been a poor choice, but Jeffords was certainly arrogant and certainly didn't give a damn about strenthening and building up moderates within the GOP, nor did he care about Snowe, who tried to dissuade him from leaving the caucus. He could have become an Indy but stayed with the GOP caucus. That would have made his statement. He went the next step, depriving the GOP of its Senate majority. He did far more to destroy moderate Republicans, then Palin and Toomey did, in my opinion. He got his moment in the national news, he got a superior committee placement, and yes he did retire having succeeding to garner far more attention and influence then he deserved. I personally have know problem with moderate Republicans, but I do know self-serving arrogance when I see it, and I know counterproductivity when I see it.


So it wasn't conservatives pushing out moderate views in the GOP--a process that began LONG before 2010--that caused Jeffords and other moderates to leave, it was the moderates refusal to support conservatives? It isn't the increasingly Tea Party dominated GOP base that voted out Castle and threatens Snowe, but the moderates themselves? Huh

Wow. That is some seriously revisionist history there Yank.

1. Of course it has happened before like Clifford Case in 1978, however it wasn't as widespread as it is now and was a more individualized occurance. As late as 2004, Specter was renominatied, in 2006, Chafee was. Now, they are lucky if they even win a single primary in a state like Delaware, which they didn't. The Club For Growth's first real primary successes were in 2006 and 2008. That is what I was referring too. Do I have spell out every damn miniscule detail of my point to avoid you from making stupid assumptions that insult my intelligence Roll Eyes.

2. Jeffords wasn't forced out by anyone. As I recall, he had just been both renominated and reelected just a few months prior to his switch.

3. It is the appearence of arrogance, appearance of elitism, and appearence of not practicing what they preach on a "big tent" that has led Conservatives to turn so violently on them in primaries. The actions of Jeffords helped lead to what happened to Chaffee and in turn both then led to what has happened since.

4. Politics is not about affirmative action, it is about winning votes. You either appeal to base in the primary or you lose, simple as that. This is comming from somone who supported Castle, and supports Olympia Snowe in 2012. I will not hessitate to say that what they should have done or have to do and will not whine and cry if they loose because they expected victory or didn't bother to take the primary seriously, like some other moderate supporters on here do.

5. Since I have to spell everything out word for word, the reason Jeffords hurt Castle and will hurt Snowe is that some people, especially Conservative activists, remember 2001 and are not in the mood willing to support Moderates and will take the opportunity when in a favorable anti-incumbent environemnt to try and remove them in the primaries.

6. Why has the tea party come to dominate the primaries? Because so many moderate primary votes left the party. Specter's base became Democrats in 2008 and left him high and dry in 2010. Castle's base, over a decade or so became Democrats and screwed him over. Its self-fulfilling, and self-destructive ironically.

The only revionist history here is in the garbage you and others imagine I am saying or want to think I am saying. Either take an open mind when assuming what I mean (come up with multiple options or better yet ASK! what I do mean) instead of assuming the scenario that best benefits you at the time, or don't respond to my posts. Thanks your your cooperation.

 



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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2010, 08:36:13 am »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero Power hungry POS from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

Re-corrected. Tongue

Yes, Jeffords was so "power hungry" that he retired less than 4 years after the switch when he could've won re-election in a heartbeat. By "power hungry" I think you mean "unalterably fed up with southern far right theocrat control of the GOP", my friend. Wink

You know, Moderates whine that we need to accomodate them, and have a big tent. Yet when it turns around they rarely find it in themselves to support conservatives. Its telling that even as late as 2006, Chafee survived his primary challenge. The knocking off of moderates began that year but it certainly wasn't the impossibility it is now for a moderate to win a primary. The actions of Jeffords and Chafee in part, doomed Castle and possibly Snowe in 2012. Power hungry might have been a poor choice, but Jeffords was certainly arrogant and certainly didn't give a damn about strenthening and building up moderates within the GOP, nor did he care about Snowe, who tried to dissuade him from leaving the caucus. He could have become an Indy but stayed with the GOP caucus. That would have made his statement. He went the next step, depriving the GOP of its Senate majority. He did far more to destroy moderate Republicans, then Palin and Toomey did, in my opinion. He got his moment in the national news, he got a superior committee placement, and yes he did retire having succeeding to garner far more attention and influence then he deserved. I personally have know problem with moderate Republicans, but I do know self-serving arrogance when I see it, and I know counterproductivity when I see it.


So it wasn't conservatives pushing out moderate views in the GOP--a process that began LONG before 2010--that caused Jeffords and other moderates to leave, it was the moderates refusal to support conservatives? It isn't the increasingly Tea Party dominated GOP base that voted out Castle and threatens Snowe, but the moderates themselves? Huh

Wow. That is some seriously revisionist history there Yank.

1. Of course it has happened before like Clifford Case in 1978, however it wasn't as widespread as it is now and was a more individualized occurance. As late as 2004, Specter was renominatied, in 2006, Chafee was. Now, they are lucky if they even win a single primary in a state like Delaware, which they didn't. The Club For Growth's first real primary successes were in 2006 and 2008. That is what I was referring too. Do I have spell out every damn miniscule detail of my point to avoid you from making stupid assumptions that insult my intelligence Roll Eyes.


Apparantly, yes.... Tongue
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2010, 09:18:04 pm »
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I won't fault you for trying. It's always been my dream to be Majority Leader of the Senate. Tongue

Why? You really want to end up like these characters have?

Bob Dole - Connection to Senate dragged down his campaign for President
Trent Lott - axed amidst scandal
Bill Frist- Lost Senate, and had Presidential aspirations destroyed for a variety of reasons
Harry Reid - goes without saying.

Tom Daschle ended poorly as well Tongue Wink

Oh yea, I forgot he ran the Senate for like 16 months or something like that, thanks to that SOB exemplary moderate hero from Vermont. Wink

Corrected. Wink

"Moderate hero" is an insult.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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