Atlasia v. Antonio V (user search)
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  Atlasia v. Antonio V (search mode)
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Author Topic: Atlasia v. Antonio V  (Read 13541 times)
Badger
badger
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Posts: 40,317
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« on: November 01, 2010, 10:38:01 PM »

This is a case brought before the courts? Disposition of what constitutes "emerald green"?? Roll Eyes

So glad there's not a potential economic crisis looming or anything. Wouldn't want to be distracted from such heady matters of state....
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Badger
badger
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Posts: 40,317
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 10:44:37 AM »

Wow is this what the Atlasian legal system has come to... no complete jury to actually judge the case, an attorney general who refuses to put forward the case and who doesn't appoint someone to do it for him. I'm not a fan of Libertas of any sorts, but this is quite an unfair handling of the case.


First off, in a criminal case its the defendant's right to chose whether to be tried by a jury or directly by the court (i.e. the judge). Antonio waiving that right is nothing new or scandalous either in Atlasia or RL.

Secondly, given the tiny, tiny world of Atlasian politics, every person tried has about a 50/50 shot of having their case heard by either an active (or at least semi-active) politico of their party, or an active politico of an opposing party. I never heard any critique of Ebowed being unable to fairly hear the case other than occasional carping "but he's part of the JCP machine" from the usual quarters. I heard no specific indication that Ebowed and Antonio were too personally close/antipathetic for this not to be a fair trial, and I see no reason not to doubt Ebowed not sua sponte (i.e. on the Court's own motion) recusing himself.

The only possible issue was the fact that Blue felt it was a weak case he inherited as new AG, and didn't present any evidence to speak of. That might be of concern except not only was he up front about his doubts in the case, but repeatedly offered to turn over the prosecution to Libertas or someone else.

The real issue here seems to be that if Libertas and other critics didn't take MB up on his repeated offers to take over the prosecution, what right do they have to complain now?
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 08:07:34 PM »

Libertas, you're really not helping your cause.

Just saying.

My cause? My cause is justice, but justice will not be served as long as we have a corrupt machine running our court system.

Senator, this STILL begs the obvious question: WHY after being repeatedly offered the chance to handle the prosecution did you fail to do so? IIRC the AG offered to give the prosecution over to an independent investigator multiple times, but no one--yourself included--stepped up.

I think justice behoves you answer that simple question before you bloviate again.
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Badger
badger
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 10:02:41 PM »

The Court did fail in this case.  They failed to assemble a jury, after what appeared to be a half-hearted attempt to form one.  Weeks were allowed to pass with no action.  It was not until I, as President, sent a PM to the Court asking that something be done, that a verdict was delivered.  I also made it clear that I held no opinion regarding what the verdict should be, merely that there should be one.

Well, no argument there.

Still, there's a marked difference of scale between deriliction of duty and outright corruption.
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Badger
badger
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Posts: 40,317
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 01:59:48 PM »

I can't do the Attorney General's job. Who the frig was I going to appoint?That was a ridiculous cheap and lazy cop-out on the AG's part.

Not to mention that I'm not sure what was even left to argue. Kalwejt and I put forth the case and addressed numerous arguments. Antonio put up essentially no defense. We didn't need some special prosecutor to be appointed to do Marokai's job for him. What we needed was a jury to be assembled, but apparently the JCP was afraid that a real jury might rule against them.

First, do you deny that it is the DEFENSE's sole right to decide whether to try a case before a judge or a jury? This was not a decision for "we", the prosecution, to make but Antonio's and his alone.

Secondly, this of course leads to your interminable screaming that this trial was a "JCP orchestrated fix" from the start. Well, isn't KALWJET part of the JCP? Fritz's Veep and JCP Vice Chair actually. By your own admission you and he "put forth the case and addressed numerous arguments", apparently quite to your satisfaction. What about MaxQue? He's strong JCP and a former senator. Antonio knew he was a juror who alone could've hung the entire jury. Not to mention the JCP-rich Pacific would've undoubtedly ultimately put multiple more JCP jurors in the box to hear this case. And yet Antonio chose to waive jury anyway.

SO, Senator, if this case was such a "JCP fix" from the start, why did Vice Chair Kal so aggressively and effectively prosecute this matter until his election to VP? Why did Antonio waive jury when Max alone could've prevented a conviction (and assuredly would've had other JCP Pacific jurors to assist)? The answer should be undeniable even to you---there was no orchestrated "JCP fix". Your typical scattergun attacks wrongly and unfairly maligns the ENTIRE JCP--including people who attempted to help this prosecution like Kal and (apparently, if sworn as a juror) Max. As AT WORSE (can't emphasize this enough, more to follow...) your beef here is with A-G Marokai Blue and/or Justice Ebowed, your repeated libel of the entire JCP deserves to utterly stop, if not an apology for your broad brushed maligning 50+ forum members.

Third, you say this is Blue's fault for not pursuing the case. "I can't do the Attorney General's job. Who the frig was I going to appoint?" Alas, reality differs with your assessment again. Let's look at the facts:

I'm certainly not going to argue a case that I don't support.

If someone wants this case to proceed then find me someone who's interested in arguing the case on the government's behalf.
Unless of course everyone involved in this case just wants it to go straight to the jury from here, in which case I'll just stand here and look pretty in the meantime while everyone else deliberates, but if it's a guilty verdict and Antonio appeals, don't expect me to participate in the case a second time.

This case was brought against Antonio V by your own administration, in which you had served as VP. It's not like this was some partisan witch hunt started by an opposing party administration. There's really no justification for dropping this case. Rather, there is a clear basis for charging the defendant here with criminal misconduct; this was recognized as such by members of both the Purple State and Fritz administrations, under which you've served.

Are you really going to be so shamelessly partisan and biased in your role so as to blatantly refuse to prosecute Antonio V? Why did you become AG if you're not going to enforce the laws of Atlasia? You're supposed to disregard your own personal beliefs and instead give your all into arguing on behalf of the Atlasian government and its laws. It's part of the job description.

Purple State ordered Kalwejt to prosecute Antonio. I was part of the Administration, but I certainly wasn't in charge, there was nothing I could do. I was Vice President, not Supreme Ruler of the Cosmos.

I'm perfectly willing to appoint anyone to take on the case aside from me or let the case go straight to the jury. If I wanted to be "shamelessly partisan" I couldn't just waltzed right in here and done my damnedest to derail the entire process. I didn't. I offered you the choice of anyone you wanted to pursue the case in my stead, as I don't believe in the case, and publicly argued in Antonio's favor before I became Attorney General.I became AG to pursue what I considered to be breaches of the law and uphold our statute, as well as keep the regions in line. I didn't become AG to play a part in any petty squabbling. But instead of taking my offer that I was under no obligation to give you, you're here bitching at me instead of being mature and letting the case continue with someone else at the helm. You certainly have no moral highground here.

I have no desire to pursue this case because I do not believe there is any breaking of the law here, and I've already publicly argued against the government's position before I became AG. Therefore, I've done the responsible thing and backed out. You once complained to me when I served on the Court for refusing to back out of a case, and now you're complaining that I'm offering you full control over the prosecution while I step back out of it.
This case will continue if you decide to make it do so, Libertas. I don't want to hear any complaints.

<highlights bolded>

You were offered EVERY chance to proceed with the prosecution, by appointment of either yourself or any bar member you would've put forward, but completely failed to step up. Blue "didn't do his job as A-G"?? As Bacon King pointed out, Senator, the A-G recusing himself he feels biased in is specifically authorized by statute. In recusing himself, Blue WAS doing his job as A-G. NO prosecutor, as Junkie wisely noted, is required to prosecute a case they believe to be legally or factually sustainable. That IS NOT the A-G's job. Furthermore, if I was in your shoes as a non-party victim in the case, I would've been highly upset if someone who repeatedly and publically declared the deep skepticism over this case tried taking over the prosecution. And of course if the case then wound up as an acquittal you would've never accused Blue of dereliction of duty in failing to appoint independent counsel. It's so unlike you to complain when you have the option of actually being constructive....

So the ball was in your court--handed to you on a golden platter even, and you chose to punt rather than run with it. If you truly believe that a prosecutor's job is prosecute any case they have fundamental misgivings about the facts and law over, let alone stated so publically, then you have no room criticizing Blue or anyone else, as such grossly non-judicial views make one professionally incapable of being a parking ticket magistrate. It's not MB's fault he DID HIS JOB as A-G by seeking independent counsel, not Justice Ebowed's for finding Antonio not guilty when Blue could not find worthy grounds to present the court, but your fault and yours alone.

Senator, we already knew you were abrasive, arrogant, a sucker for conspiracy theories, antisemitic, and flexable as a crowbar. But at least before now, and all your recent missed votes, I at least never thought you were lazy.

Nah, you just wanted something new to complain about I bet. That warm fuzzy aggrieved feeling of "fighting the corrupt system" is worth more to you than convicting Antonio 20 times over.

(Oh, and ftr, my views on the case are similar to Max's)
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Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
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Posts: 40,317
United States


« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 08:11:41 PM »

After a basic skim through the thread, I see no problems procedurally with what occurred here.

That does not mean that I conclude such, at all for purposes of appeal, but if you're going to challenge the procedure, your time is running, Libertas.

Standing?
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Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
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Posts: 40,317
United States


« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 10:16:00 PM »

There really is no point in actually arguing with Libertas over this. He just wants to throw a tantrum...and no objective arguments will ever change his position.

<sigh> You're right, Franzl, you're right. I keep forgetting.

But at least hopefully this'll encourage others to maintain some independent thought on the matter and realize how foolish his claims "the fix was in" are.
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