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Author Topic: NE2: SOAP Amendment (Failed in Tie Vote)  (Read 178 times)
cinyc
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« on: April 01, 2014, 08:34:23 pm »
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SOAP Amendment
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Section 3, subsection 2 of the Northeast SOAP is hereby amended to read:

During debate, Representatives and sponsors of proposed legislation may suggest amendments to proposed legislation. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation publicly deems the amendment friendly, no vote on the amendment shall be required, unless an objection is filed by a Representative within TBD hours of the time the amendment was initially proposed. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation does not publicly deem the amendment friendly, a vote on the amendment shall be taken 24 hours after being proposed unless there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill. If there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill, a vote on the amendment shall be taken before proceeding to a final vote on the bill. Such vote shall be open for 24 hours, or until all Representatives have voted, if earlier. An amendment shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).

Sponsor: Rep. Deus naturae

Debate on this bill shall remain open for 72 hours, or until around 9:35PM on Friday, April 4, unless modified or extended. The sponsor, Rep. Deus, is encouraged to speak on behalf of the bill within the next 36 hours.  If he does not, the bill will be tabled, as there is other proposed legislation pending in the queue.

The floor is open for debate.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 03:42:08 pm by cinyc »Logged
Rep. Deus
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 09:05:32 pm »
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The purpose of this bill is to allow Representatives to object to (and thus require a vote on) amendments they oppose. for example, say that an amendment is offered by the sponsor, or by a Representative and declared friendly by the sponsor, but is opposed by a majority of Representatives. If the Representatives approve of the rest of the bill, they should be able to object to the amendment so that they aren't forced to vote the bill down. A main area where I think this could up is when the Assembly is debating a budget. Our most recent budget debate was rather uncontroversial, but imagine if a Representative proposed to increase/decrease/eliminate a major tax, the Governor agreed, but a majority of Representatives disagreed. they would have no choice but to accept the tax hike/cut/elimination or vote against the entire budget. This procedure is currently in place in the Senate, and although we certainly don't have as many controversial amendments they do, I still that we should put in place a procedure that would allow for a vote on any amendment, if a Representative so desired.
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Um, I for one love Southern culture. I eat KFC and Popeye's all the time.

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cinyc
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 06:02:14 pm »
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I don't support this.  The sponsor should ultimately control his or her legislation.  If an amendment is so bad as that someone objects, they can always vote against the bill.  Plus, it adds more complexity to my job as Speaker.

If this does pass, I think the drafting is incomplete.  As written, all it says is that someone can object TBD hours after the amendment was proposed.  I don't know why it should be linked to when the amendment is proposed instead of agreed to.  A sponsor can take his time in agreeing to amendments some time.  Moreover, as drafted, it doesn't spell out what happens if someone objects.
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Senator bore
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 12:39:45 pm »
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This is probably a good idea, not so much on pet bills but on large omnibus bills, where there is one sponsor but the whole assembly is involved directly in the decision making.

Speaking as someone who's been observing and participating in the assembly for about 2 years now, though, the real problem with the SOAP, it seems to me, is the time limit on legislation. I've seen many bills which are uncompleted rushed through because time ran out, with debate still raging on, which isn't a good idea. It might have been necessary in the past due to there only being 2 slots, but with 3 plus the budget available for use I don't think that would be a problem anymore.
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Cincinnatus
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 04:24:17 pm »
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This is probably a good idea, not so much on pet bills but on large omnibus bills, where there is one sponsor but the whole assembly is involved directly in the decision making.

Speaking as someone who's been observing and participating in the assembly for about 2 years now, though, the real problem with the SOAP, it seems to me, is the time limit on legislation. I've seen many bills which are uncompleted rushed through because time ran out, with debate still raging on, which isn't a good idea. It might have been necessary in the past due to there only being 2 slots, but with 3 plus the budget available for use I don't think that would be a problem anymore.

I generally agree with this argument.  I think the maximum/minimum should certainly be lengthened, if only by a little.  The Assembly needs more deliberation on the bills that actually make it to the queue, rather than blow through proposed legislation three quarters of the way through the session.  The SOAP isn't broken, rather, there's always a way to improve it, as we've all learned from experience.
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Rep. Deus
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 09:40:46 pm »
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Quote from: amendment offered
SOAP Amendment
Section 3, subsection 2 of the Northeast SOAP is hereby amended to read:

During debate, Representatives and sponsors of proposed legislation may suggest amendments to proposed legislation. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation publicly deems the amendment friendly, no vote on the amendment shall be required, unless an objection is filed by a Representative within three hours of the time the amendment was initially proposed. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation does not publicly deem the amendment friendly, or is a Representative objects to the amendment, a vote on the amendment shall be taken 24 hours after being proposed unless there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill. If there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill, a vote on the amendment shall be taken before proceeding to a final vote on the bill. Such vote shall be open for 24 hours, or until all Representatives have voted, if earlier. An amendment shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).

I'm really not sure how long the objections period should be. I'm open to any suggestions about that.

Napoleon, Sirnick, and SWE, what are your opinions of the bill? If you have a negative opinion, how would you feel about amending the SOAP to include a Representative objection procedure for budget negotiations only (this question goes to Cinyc as well)?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 10:22:25 pm by Rep. Deus »Logged

Um, I for one love Southern culture. I eat KFC and Popeye's all the time.

If OP wants to view child porn, then he could certainly find it.
cinyc
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 09:56:29 pm »
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Three hours after an amendment is proposed is pretty short.  Nobody is on this website 24-7, so if someone proposes an amendment at 3AM, for example, nobody might be around to object by 6AM.

I might be able to support this for the budget.  I can't support it for ordinary legislation, which, under the Constitution, "shall relate to but one subject that is to be expressed in its title", anyway.  There should be no other omnibus legislation other than the budget.
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Rep. Deus
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 10:26:59 pm »
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Quote from: amendment offered
During debate, Representatives and sponsors of proposed legislation may suggest amendments to proposed legislation. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation publicly deems the amendment friendly, no vote on the amendment shall be required, unless an objection is filed by a Representative within threetwelve hours of the time the amendment was initially proposed. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation does not publicly deem the amendment friendly, or a Representative objects to the amendment, a vote on the amendment shall be taken 24 hours after being proposed unless there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill. If there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill, a vote on the amendment shall be taken before proceeding to a final vote on the bill. Such vote shall be open for 24 hours, or until all Representatives have voted, if earlier. An amendment shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).
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Um, I for one love Southern culture. I eat KFC and Popeye's all the time.

If OP wants to view child porn, then he could certainly find it.
NE Rep SWE
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 01:34:14 pm »
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This seems like a pretty reasonable proposal. I'd support it
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SirNick
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 01:36:15 pm »
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I think we need to extend overall debate times including the 12 hours that Deus indicated. For instance, if an amendment is proposed at 6pm, and the sponsor gets beers after work, goes to bed, then by 6am he loses the power to deny the amendment..needs more time.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 07:06:53 pm »
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I wouldn't take issue with a time extension, but we can use the Northeast Assembly Thread to discuss pending legislation ahead of time. There used to be a Northeast Protest and Analysis thread before we adopted slots.
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cinyc
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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 07:43:05 pm »
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Given that the bill is still being debated, I'm going to make and agree to a motion to extend debate by one day, or until around 9:30PM on Saturday, April 5.
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SirNick
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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 08:01:11 pm »
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I support the Speaker's extension.

If the Governor prefers we move my point/conversation to the other thread, I'm fine with that.
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cinyc
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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2014, 11:39:23 pm »
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The debate period is over.  It is time to vote on the bill, as amended:

SOAP Amendment
Quote
During debate, Representatives and sponsors of proposed legislation may suggest amendments to proposed legislation. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation publicly deems the amendment friendly, no vote on the amendment shall be required, unless an objection is filed by a Representative within twelve hours of the time the amendment was initially proposed. If the sponsor of the proposed legislation does not publicly deem the amendment friendly, or a Representative objects to the amendment, a vote on the amendment shall be taken 24 hours after being proposed unless there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill. If there is less than 24 hours of debate remaining on the bill, a vote on the amendment shall be taken before proceeding to a final vote on the bill. Such vote shall be open for 24 hours, or until all Representatives have voted, if earlier. An amendment shall pass if a majority of Representatives vote in favor of it (with abstentions and absences not counted as votes).

This vote will remain open for the earlier of 48 hours or when all Representatives have voted.
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cinyc
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2014, 11:40:05 pm »
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Nay
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Rep. Deus
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2014, 11:45:47 pm »
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Aye
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Um, I for one love Southern culture. I eat KFC and Popeye's all the time.

If OP wants to view child porn, then he could certainly find it.
SirNick
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2014, 05:52:16 am »
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Nay
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NE Rep SWE
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« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2014, 01:50:51 pm »
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Aye
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Napoleon
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« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2014, 11:39:00 pm »
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Abstain
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cinyc
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2014, 03:42:48 pm »
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By a 2-2 vote with one abstention, the bill fails to get majority support, and therefore, fails.
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