Why do conservatives dislike the idea of pensions?

[LBJ Revivalist]

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows, and repeatedly on a few separate shows he attacks pensions--that they are a threat to the nation, a fiscal threat; He attacked them as basically being socialistic--That they are tools of unions which hijack state budgets in the "Cloward and Piven" conspiracy to overwhelm the system. I don't get it. I thought, to be honest, having a pension after you retire was a fundamental part of the American experience. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought that a pension in some form was a natural part of retirement. It just seems like the nation I grew up in, or the ideas I grew up with, or are being shattered in front of me.

[cannonia]

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows, and repeatedly on a few separate shows he attacks pensions--that they are a threat to the nation, a fiscal threat; He attacked them as basically being socialistic--That they are tools of unions which hijack state budgets in the "Cloward and Piven" conspiracy to overwhelm the system. I don't get it. I thought, to be honest, having a pension after you retire was a fundamental part of the American experience. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought that a pension in some form was a natural part of retirement. It just seems like the nation I grew up in, or the ideas I grew up with, or are being shattered in front of me.

Meh.

I have no idea what Glenn Beck's take on it is, so keep watching him if you want to know that.  But there seems to be a tendency to overpromise when it comes to pensions; the spending is deferred, and whoever makes the promise might well be gone by the time it comes due.  It's worse in the public sector, where some employees end up with a pension based on 100% (or more) of the last year's pay (which itself is inflated through excessive use of overtime).  So they're not bad per se, but there is the incentive to promise a pension beyond the limits of affordability.

[tpfkaw]

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

[memphis]

Pensions are the greatest thing ever. No other benefit comes close. It's real retirement security whether you live to 70 or 100. So superior to the 401(k) crap most companies offer. Conservatives dislike them because they are expensive and they would rather have most of a company's wages directed toward a few executives who can trickle down upon the masses.

[Хahar 🤔]

Why do you keep talking about Glenn Beck?

[LBJ Revivalist]

Why do you keep talking about Glenn Beck?

Because at this point, he is the de facto guiding force in politics in this nation. He attacked Van Jones--Van Jones resigned.
He and his cabal with the Koch Brothers are the real leaders of this country. A silent coup of sorts. Obama pursues any further liberal legislation, the Rs will respond by defunding everything from NPR to Social Security. It will be tat for tat, and Obama will probably be the last Democratic President for decades.

[Torie]

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows, and repeatedly on a few separate shows he attacks pensions--that they are a threat to the nation, a fiscal threat; He attacked them as basically being socialistic--That they are tools of unions which hijack state budgets in the "Cloward and Piven" conspiracy to overwhelm the system. I don't get it. I thought, to be honest, having a pension after you retire was a fundamental part of the American experience. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought that a pension in some form was a natural part of retirement. It just seems like the nation I grew up in, or the ideas I grew up with, or are being shattered in front of me.

I doubt Beck hates all pensions. That would make zero sense, even from his peculiar perspective. He is probably referring to defined benefit plans, mostly in the public sector now, with a few remaining in unionized private companies, which are slowly being dumped in the latter case. The formulas for public employee defined benefit plans in any event, are slated to being cut way back, since many states and municipalities are bankrupt, even if they have not gone through the formalities of doing so, and federal aid to states and localities is now at an end. So the jig is up.

By the way, nobody picked up the biggest sop in the tax code to the "rich" of all, even though I challenged them to identify it, and that is in the pension sector. I dump, or did dump before I become a playboy, about 50K year in and year out, into my pension plan, all tax deductible above the line, along with my two law partners, while putting about 5K into our two secretaries pension plans. Now that is an outrage.

The other sop to the rich is municipal bonds.

And there you have it.

[J. J.]

Pensions are the greatest thing ever. No other benefit comes close. It's real retirement security whether you live to 70 or 100. So superior to the 401(k) crap most companies offer. Conservatives dislike them because they are expensive and they would rather have most of a company's wages directed toward a few executives who can trickle down upon the masses.

I'm on half pay of my 1998 salary.

[cannonia]

By the way, nobody picked up the biggest sop in the tax code to the "rich" of all, even though I challenged them to identify it, and that is in the pension sector. I dump, or did dump before I become a playboy, about 50K year in and year out, into my pension plan, all tax deductible above the line, along with my two law partners, while putting about 5K into our two secretaries pension plans. Now that is an outrage.

The other sop to the rich is municipal bonds.

And there you have it.

Technically it's just tax deferred, right?  Pay later rather than now?

[Capitan Zapp Brannigan]

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows

There's the problem then.

[Torie]

By the way, nobody picked up the biggest sop in the tax code to the "rich" of all, even though I challenged them to identify it, and that is in the pension sector. I dump, or did dump before I become a playboy, about 50K year in and year out, into my pension plan, all tax deductible above the line, along with my two law partners, while putting about 5K into our two secretaries pension plans. Now that is an outrage.

The other sop to the rich is municipal bonds.

And there you have it.

Technically it's just tax deferred, right?  Pay later rather than now?

True, and you pay when your tax bracket is lower, and given that you potentially have a deferral of the tax for decades, when you factor in the time value of money, the subsidy to the rich can potentially by on the order of several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Trust me. And the rich can set up their own defined benefit plans, and if they have few employees, and are confident that they will be making the big bucks for a decade, and are 45 or older, the subsidy can even be substantially more than that, with over 100K dumped into the defined benefit plan, all tax deductible. The whole thing from a public policy perspective is quite nausiating. And you don't want to know how much is in my pension plan. I would be embarrassed to tell you.

Just when you all think I am totally a right winger on money matters, I surprise you no?  The ying and the yang.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows,

I stopped reading after that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

They are unsustainable financially. Conservatives, myself include, want to move all public sector employees to defined contribution plans, so the gov'ts responsbility is capped, instead of the defined benefit plans which are bankrupting gov'ts at all levels.

Its the same idea behind a voucher program for Medicaid, where you switch to defined contribution from defined benefit, thus capping the gov'ts hit on the spreadsheet, so you can get the country's finances under control.

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows, and repeatedly on a few separate shows he attacks pensions--that they are a threat to the nation, a fiscal threat; He attacked them as basically being socialistic--That they are tools of unions which hijack state budgets in the "Cloward and Piven" conspiracy to overwhelm the system. I don't get it. I thought, to be honest, having a pension after you retire was a fundamental part of the American experience. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought that a pension in some form was a natural part of retirement. It just seems like the nation I grew up in, or the ideas I grew up with, or are being shattered in front of me.

I doubt Beck hates all pensions. That would make zero sense, even from his peculiar perspective. He is probably referring to defined benefit plans, mostly in the public sector now, with a few remaining in unionized private companies, which are slowly being dumped in the latter case. The formulas for public employee defined benefit plans in any event, are slated to being cut way back, since many states and municipalities are bankrupt, even if they have not gone through the formalities of doing so, and federal aid to states and localities is now at an end. So the jig is up.

By the way, nobody picked up the biggest sop in the tax code to the "rich" of all, even though I challenged them to identify it, and that is in the pension sector. I dump, or did dump before I become a playboy, about 50K year in and year out, into my pension plan, all tax deductible above the line, along with my two law partners, while putting about 5K into our two secretaries pension plans. Now that is an outrage.

The other sop to the rich is municipal bonds.

And there you have it.

Beck is most likely referring to defined benefit plans for public sector employees.

[J. J.]

They are unsustainable financially. Conservatives, myself include, want to move all public sector employees to defined contribution plans, so the gov'ts responsbility is capped, instead of the defined benefit plans which are bankrupting gov'ts at all levels.

Its the same idea behind a voucher program for Medicaid, where you switch to defined contribution from defined benefit, thus capping the gov'ts hit on the spreadsheet, so you can get the country's finances under control.

I was watching some older Glenn Beck shows, and repeatedly on a few separate shows he attacks pensions--that they are a threat to the nation, a fiscal threat; He attacked them as basically being socialistic--That they are tools of unions which hijack state budgets in the "Cloward and Piven" conspiracy to overwhelm the system. I don't get it. I thought, to be honest, having a pension after you retire was a fundamental part of the American experience. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought that a pension in some form was a natural part of retirement. It just seems like the nation I grew up in, or the ideas I grew up with, or are being shattered in front of me.

I doubt Beck hates all pensions. That would make zero sense, even from his peculiar perspective. He is probably referring to defined benefit plans, mostly in the public sector now, with a few remaining in unionized private companies, which are slowly being dumped in the latter case. The formulas for public employee defined benefit plans in any event, are slated to being cut way back, since many states and municipalities are bankrupt, even if they have not gone through the formalities of doing so, and federal aid to states and localities is now at an end. So the jig is up.

By the way, nobody picked up the biggest sop in the tax code to the "rich" of all, even though I challenged them to identify it, and that is in the pension sector. I dump, or did dump before I become a playboy, about 50K year in and year out, into my pension plan, all tax deductible above the line, along with my two law partners, while putting about 5K into our two secretaries pension plans. Now that is an outrage.

The other sop to the rich is municipal bonds.

And there you have it.

Beck is most likely referring to defined benefit plans for public sector employees.

One consideration was that the public sector use to, at least, have very low salaries.  Today, adjusted for inflation, the starting salary would about $34,000.  The job required a bachelors degree or four years work experience.  A supervisor had maybe 10% on top of that with additional 1-2 years in the job.

At the end of five years, the base salary was still the same, with a COLA; the first non-COLA didn't hit until your 7th year.   The difference was, the benefits were great, full medical, full dental, and you had job security.  You could retire at half pay (no benefits) at 15 years and 20-25 years at half pay and medical.  At age 50 and 30 years, you got everything, but what you didn't get was a fairly large paycheck.

[opebo]

Its not what you fellows think - its not about the specific money at all, which is insignificant, it is about power. 

When workers have pensions, and feel they have a right to pensions, they become very markedly less desperate and more confident and demanding of political power.  For your serfs to begin to make such demands is the erosion of absolute owner-power, and must be stamped out at all costs.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Seriously, convervatives dislike pensions?  The title nearly qualifies as excessive hyperbole. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Successful concern troll is successful.

[??????????]

Because they are financial losers that act as a boat anchor around the neck of companies.

[opebo]

Seriously, convervatives dislike pensions?  The title nearly qualifies as excessive hyperbole. 

Surely you jest?  The vast majority of conservatives do hate pensions.

[You kip if you want to...]

"Republicans want you to die quickly." - Congressman Alan Grayson (D-FL)

[Phony Moderate]

Why do the mods allow this troll to be fed?

[opebo]

Why do the mods allow this troll to be fed?

You think right wing opposition to pensions is not a topic worthy of discussion on a political forum?  I suppose the fact that they've already succeeded in eliminating them makes it more of a historical curiosity, but I'm still interested.

[MODU]

Pensions require a certain level of investment by active employees to fund the program.  It works at first, but can become easily unsustainable after a while when market conditions change.  Not only do you need a constant supply of participating employees to fund the program, you need to constantly increase the number of employees, decrease the amount of the benefit payout to future retiries (keeping the existing rate), or increase the contribution rate to fund the ever-growing population of retired employees.  After a while, the company has to start contributing more of their profits into the program to make up the different until it becomes too costly to support.  In steps the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation to bail them out.  So on and so forth...

The best pension programs are the ones that cap the payout to a particular dollar figure or a certain length of time.  That way, it's not an open-ended obligation ... which is more financially sustainable.

If you can get a job that pays a pension, more power to you. Just remember to keep investing in your own private savings as if the pension never existed so you can protect yourself financially when you retire, just in case the pension fund becomes insolvent, and there is no funds left to pay to the retirees.  The pension payout you receive will just be gravy ontop of your savings.

[LBJ Revivalist]

Seriously, convervatives dislike pensions?  The title nearly qualifies as excessive hyperbole. 

The day conservatives/The Tea Party disown Beck as one of their spokesmen is the day I'll stop asking about him.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Seriously, convervatives dislike pensions?  The title nearly qualifies as excessive hyperbole. 

The day conservatives/The Tea Party disown Beck as one of their spokesmen is the day I'll stop asking about him.

Beck is an entertainer. The same Glenn Beck who the left claims will cause another Oklahoma city bombing asks his listeners to "pray for the safety of the President" and discourages and condemns all acts of violence. Why do we have to disown him? I don't recall him ever being more then entertainer using and "old comedians trick" in the words of Jon Stewart. There are far more dangerous people working for Obama in the White House and in your neighborhood then the guy on Fox News at 5 PM. I have very little respect for Beck, as many on here know, but I do know he is not the evil boogeyman the leftist fringe hysterically paint him as, and there is no reason to disown a TV personality. Its not our position to even do that, as he is not Republican Congressman or Governor or something.

"Republicans want you to die quickly." - Congressman Alan Grayson (D-FL)

No, What Grayson is too stupid to realize or too arrogant (a trait inherent in most far leftists) to even contemplate, is that Republicans do not beleive its the Gov't's job to provide health care for everybody, nor is it the gov'ts right to mandate the purchase of a product as a condition of living as a US Citizen. Yet the left bitches because of the poisonous political environment, eventhough it is there own fault partially for not even being willing to acknowledge the right of the opposition to have a different opinion. Instead they are to be demogoged with dumb and stupid hyperbole on the House floor. The reason for this is survival 101. If the tea party gets accepted as mainstream, they will have to contend with an active political force seeking to reverse the growth in gov't, and that most be stopped at all cause, lest the progressive adjenda be delayed another 50, 70 or 90 years. Progress in my view doesn't come at the expense of an ever growing government spending to GDP ratio. Untill the left comes to acceptance stage of the existance of a "legitimate" movement for less gov't, there will never be any improvement in the politics of this country. Do note that acceptance, does not mean surrender. It means fighting for what you beleive but recognizing the guy on the other side, isn't evil for disagreeing with you. Thats what Grayson doesn't and will never understand and thats why he got blown out of office like he did. The guy was an airheaded partisan with little respect for the institution of the House of Representatives. If thats the type of person you admire, then I would fear for the direction of this country should we see more of them elected in the furture. I have no problem with you guys electing far left people to the Congress, I do have a problem when they deny me the right to elect solid conservatives without being labled a murderor. If thats how a leftist trully feals about the right, then they should try to refrain from poisoning the political dialogue with it.