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Author Topic: MA: Regional Budget (In the works)  (Read 9137 times)
A-Bob
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« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2011, 11:47:02 am »
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This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.
Everthing related to energy is best answered by Governor tmth as he's the one pushing for a large economy economy. For mental health and abuse, that helps overall with not just criminals, but potential would be dangerous people, it would help reform criminals as well as stop certain people from continuing a destructive path. Governments have always given out grants for research, agriculture as well in order to improve effiency, reduce costs, and create healthier crops. With alternative energy research, again, government's give out grants to those that can show promising results.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2011, 12:34:40 pm »
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This is a quote from my re-election thread where A-Bob asked about ideas for balancing the budget. I'm no expert on what's expected where, but there were things that I had questions on or believed un-necessary.

What specific cuts would you make in the budget and/or tax increases to make up for our projected budget shortfall?

I decided to go over the budget and see what was going on. I came up with two categories for the things I wrote down: "What is this?", and "What is oure role in this?" I'd appreciate an amount of explanation for category one, and an a reason why we're funding category two.

What is this?
Updating Energy Infrastructure
I'm wondering what that means and how it translates into action.

What is oure role in this?
Mental health and substance abuse (Is the reason we're paying for this crime control, or general humanitarianism?)
Agricultural research (It's probably normal for a government to fund research, but why?)
Crop Insurance (Are there private agencies for this? Do people pay, or do they get it for free?)
Fund for alternative energy (Again, I know most government fund this, but why? I'd at least consider leaving it up to private enterprise to research)
Vocational Education (Is this like trade school? I can understand K-12, but please explain this)

I'd like these questions answered.
Everthing related to energy is best answered by Governor tmth as he's the one pushing for a large economy economy. For mental health and abuse, that helps overall with not just criminals, but potential would be dangerous people, it would help reform criminals as well as stop certain people from continuing a destructive path. Governments have always given out grants for research, agriculture as well in order to improve effiency, reduce costs, and create healthier crops. With alternative energy research, again, government's give out grants to those that can show promising results.
You're correct, I'm pushing for a large economy economy. Tongue
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« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2011, 12:51:12 pm »
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I'd favor some sort of tax credit system rather than the state handing out money, but I'm not sure about the nuances of that, and one of you will most likely explain why that's flawed.

I'd still like an answer to "energy infrastructure" and "vocational education".
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shua
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« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2011, 04:57:25 pm »
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so... how do we keep this process moving forward?

and can we look at doing some tax reform?Smiley
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A-Bob
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« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2011, 07:36:00 pm »
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To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2011, 08:43:33 pm »
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Where exactly are we at?

Has the GM finalized a full analysis yet?
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shua
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« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2011, 09:42:26 pm »
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To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks

I was assuming that the list and figures of tax credits/deductions were based off the total of state level tax expenditures. But now, if I understand you correctly, you are saying they were based on a list of those for the nation, divided by 4? 
I understand then why they added up to be so much in comparison to the budget, since as far as I know, states do not generally have many tax deductions, especially compared to the federal level which has many.
In that case there may not be much room to raise the region's revenue through eliminating tax credits and deductions, but I may look into it a bit more to see which states have them.
   
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A-Bob
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« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2011, 09:44:52 pm »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.
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shua
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« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2011, 10:04:32 pm »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2011, 11:09:22 pm »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?
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shua
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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2011, 01:07:21 am »
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here are links to state tax expenditure reports: http://www.itepnet.org/other_resources/state_tereport.php     (some of them - i read not all states do them and Virginia doesn't seem to have its 5yr report completed)
i dunno if maybe there's a way to make a simple estimate, maybe choose one state that's representative of the region and extrapolate that figure based on the ratio of GDP from state to region?
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« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2011, 10:53:14 pm »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. Tongue

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2011, 12:06:47 am »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. Tongue

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?
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« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2011, 04:38:36 pm »
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Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No. Tongue

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?

The numbers aren't mine, Governor, they're out there in real life tax statutes. Find them. Google, Wikipedia, etc. It's not that I'm being lazy, I just really don't have time at this moment between China, the GTO bombing, etc. etc. etc.

What I would say is that generally the deductions are allowed in full (i.e. contributions to a Keogh plan, etc). I'm sure there are some limits on some of these deductions, like the $5k limit annually to IRA contributions, but you guys may have to take up the leas there.

What I'd suggest is pick a particular deduction out of that list, and if no one is willing to figure it out individually, do it as a team. there's 5 assembly members plus the gov; everyone take a state or two in the Mideast and look up the RL tax deductability on line. Heck, if it truly is a team effort I'll gladly take a state or two myself to help.

The key here is while I pride myself on being an active number crunching GM, I simply can't do it all. So....GO TEAM MIDEAST!! Wink
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« Reply #89 on: February 06, 2011, 04:56:16 pm »
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so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?
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« Reply #90 on: February 06, 2011, 05:46:14 pm »
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so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?

If you guys/we guys can do step one, I can seriously help---maybe even do entirely--step 2.
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« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2011, 12:30:40 pm »
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Badger, what exactly is it that you need?
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« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2011, 12:51:37 pm »
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Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2011, 07:27:11 pm »
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Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?
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« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2011, 03:07:17 pm »
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Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?

Tomato, tomahto. Its the same thing whether its done now or at the end. Either way it reduces the defiicit as it shows less regional dollars being spent on such thing as highways etc.

So again, if someone has 10 minutes to do so......
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« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2011, 10:00:27 pm »
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I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.
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A-Bob
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« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2011, 06:50:19 pm »
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I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.

The other option would be to raise more taxes right now
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« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2011, 08:32:40 pm »
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so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?
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A-Bob
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« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2011, 11:46:17 pm »
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so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up
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shua
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« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2011, 12:46:53 am »
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so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?
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