Doctor Who Thread

[Sibboleth]

I can't believe TV is so popular on christmas day :/

It's actually the one day of the year that most people base their day around telly.

[CubOB]

I've read that Christmas TV being a big thing is (or was) pretty unique to the UK, is that right?

As for River Song, there are plenty of theories - the wife thing seems too obvious since it's been signposted so much, but with Moffat writing I don't think that means we can rule it out. A popular theory at the moment seems to be that she's Amy and Rory's daughter, with the pregnancy also being their exit storyline. I'm more interested in his assertion that something from the first episode of series five will be important in the next series, and it's been staring us in the face apparently

[Platypus]

I've read that Christmas TV being a big thing is (or was) pretty unique to the UK, is that right?

As for River Song, there are plenty of theories - the wife thing seems too obvious since it's been signposted so much, but with Moffat writing I don't think that means we can rule it out. A popular theory at the moment seems to be that she's Amy and Rory's daughter, with the pregnancy also being their exit storyline. I'm more interested in his assertion that something from the first episode of series five will be important in the next series, and it's been staring us in the face apparently

Amy's mum?

Pond, River...

[Sibboleth]

She is whatever Moffat do decree.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Wait, River Song will be back ?

From what I've seen in "silence in the library", the Doctor and her are passionately in love. Whether or not they are married is not that important.

River will be back for sure.  Twice these season, alluding to something quite interesting (she will be in the Weeping Angel episodes coming up for you guys.)

Next season will be the big reveal of her identity, and hopefully we can put that plot point to rest (it's the one thing I was hoping Moffat would end sooner rather than later).

As for the idea of her being his wife....it may be true, but still, it does seem a rather tad obvious, no?  And if Moffat has anything to do with it, it's never obvious.

[Californian Tony]

That's pretty surprising. I'd have expected her story to be revealed long after, or maybe never (as I don't think it would be easy to show the Doctor and her falling in love). I just assume she's not the random companion the doctor usually gets - I mean, he even told her his name.

[Californian Tony]

As I've done for the most recent ones, I'd like to do my personal rating of the episodes of the new series. I'll give a little comment of each episode and rate it using numbers from 1 (uninteresting) to 5 (epic). Let's share our thought about them.


Season 1

1. Rose : Really not much to say. Fortunately this is not the first episode I've seen, or I could have stopped watching it outright. 1.

2. The end of the world : For sure not a great episode, but some ideas were interesting. 1.

3. The unquiet dead : Mixes some unappealing elements (explaining paranormal facts with aliens is usually lame, but this is a pattern we find in almost all episodes set in the past), with some more interesting ones (Dickens was nice). Still nothing really worth remembering.  1.

4/5. Aliens of London/World War Three : The plot itself is quite banal (the evil aliens who want to destroy Earth), the Slitheen can't be taken seriously. But it was conducted surprisingly well, with interesting twists and a lot of fun everywhere in the episode. 2.

6. Dalek : This is the first episode I really liked, and despite the load of great episodes we've had it remains a reference of why this series is great. It's the first time when we really see strong emotions from the doctor, when the truth about the Time War is revealed. In one word, I think it's the first episode when we see the doctor's deep feelings, making his character far more complex than it would have been otherwise. The dialogue between the doctor and the dalek at the beginning is one of the most forceful scene of the series, as is the one when he points a gun at the Dalek unarmed. A very deserved 3.

7. The long game : It doesn't look like a great episode on a first sight, but there are a lot of things I like in this episode. The idea itself, of an insidious enemy which doesn't act by destroying everything but simply by brainwashing people and make them believe whatever it wants them to believe. Particularly, the way the doctor acts, his ability to see what everyone misses, to immediately understand what is "wrong" there. The episode makes a lot of sense, and once again it shows a lot about the series itself. Once again an overly deserved 3.

8. Father's day : The plot itself is quite good (though a bit overdone), but the episode overall didn't make a lot of impression to me. There's nothing really bad either. Just nice. 2

9/10 The empty child/The Doctor dances : This is undoubtedly the best episode of the season and probably one of the bests ever. An unseen load of angst, a genial plot idea and an exceptionally dynamic action makes this episode unique. The atmosphere first : it made me feel uncomfortable for a few days. A mysterious child with a gas mask, which looks so inoffensive despite being a threat to the entire human race. Each of his appearances are made more insidious, more upsetting, more scary (the "best" one certainly being the tape scene). The idea itself is one of the best : there is no villain, just an army of brainless robots aiming to "fix" the entire human race. That's maybe the best plot one can find to illustrate the danger of uncontrolled technology. The epoch is the best possible one, there is a lot of action and twists, Jack Harkness coming to make things more complicated... Finally (and quite paradoxically), this is one of the episodes with the most humour. To cite only one, remember the banana. I could speak about this masterpiece for hours, but I'll cut it now. Deserved 5.

11. Boom town : I guess that after the emotions of the preceding episodes, we needed something to slow down... That episode isn't really worth saying a lot. Slitheens aren't the kind of enemies you want to see back, let alone in the same season. The episode is mostly boring, and the ending too easy. 1

12/13. Bad Wolf/The parting of the ways : The beginning is particularly thrilling and well-done, with the Tardis crew caught in a crazy game for some mysterious purpose. It was particularly enjoying to see the Doctor and Jack to free themselves so easily. The general atmosphere of the episode is quite similar to that of the Long game : we have an invisible enemy who manipulates everyone like a puppetmaster. Some scenes are truly beautiful (the doctor's "with this kind of sentence you lost the right to talk to me", or when we see how daleks are afraid of him). Basically, everything is perfect until the ending. Then we have Rose looking inside the Tardis, becoming God and destroying all the daleks... which screws everything. Really, how could they come which such an easy, artificial ending ?!? And BTW, if looking inside the Tardis is enough to destroy all your enemies, why doesn't the doctor do that more often (since anyways he can then regenerate) ? Or why didn't a random Time Lord do that to destroy the Daleks instead of sacrificing the entire race ? That's pure nonsense. Still, the epsiode is great overall. 4.

[London Man]

Right... It's been a very long while since I watched the first season of the era, so I won't rate them.

I do, however, remember loathing "Boom Town" and also "The Long Game", as well as raving more over "World War Three" than is fashionable these days.

[Californian Tony]

I've never "loathed" a Doctor Who episode. The bad ones, I just ignore them. I guess I like to see the positive aspects rather than the negative ones.

[Sibboleth]

I know Cardiff well enough to find the various in-jokes in Boom Town (and there are a lot) utterly, utterly wonderful.

[Californian Tony]

Ok, let's go with season 2.

S. The Christmas invasion : Nothing particular in this episode, the story could have been far more original. The only great thing in this episode is the Doctor "deposing" Harriet Jones. I loved that scene. Still 1.

1. New Earth : First episodes are usually quite uninteresting, and this one is clearly better than the average. Still, it remains a pretty banal one, and Cassandra, like the Slitheens, is not the kind of villain you want to see back every season. 1

2. Tooth and claw : This is the traditional "historical with paranormal creatures who are in fact aliens" episode. It's not a bad one, as there are a couple of interesting ideas (also, the foundation of Torchwood is an important event), but overall it's still a pretty forgettable episode. 1.

3. School Reunion : That's an episode that could have been done a lot better, especially with Sarah Jane's comback. Giant bats can't really be taken seriously, even when they aim to rule the world, and the episode's atmosphere isn't especially convincing. 1.

4. The girl in the fireplace : Undoubtedly a good episode. It's easy to realize it was made by Moffat, as once you go beyond the first degree you find a lot in common with the "empty child". The scene at the beginning in "little Pompadour"'s room, with the broken clock, reaches a level of angst comparable to the season 1's masterpiece. But the most striking thing is how the ideas of those two episodes are similar. There is no villain, this is all about technological beings, created by humans in order to serve them, and who do nothing else that what they were created for ("fixing people" for nanogenes, fixing a spaceship for the androids"). There is no malicious intention, just the cold, rational determination of technology in doing what it is programmed for. This android endlessly repeating "we missed pieces" is a particularly beautiful and forceful allegory which sums up everything I said. Otherwise, the "love story" between the Doctor and Pompadour didn't irritate me as much as it could have. The ideas of space-time windows isn't bad (especially because it's not overused in this series). However, I've difficulties to rank it as a great episode : it lacks something that would make the action more thrilling. 3.

5/6. Rise of the cybermen/The age of steel : A lot of interesting ideas. Of course cybermen did already exist in the old series, but I still have to say they are a brilliant idea. They are nothing else that humans, humans who have lost their humanity by trying to "upgrade" themselves. A brilliant idea is also the way they appeared : John Lumic isn't some diabolic mastermind who wants to dominate the universe (well, at least he isn't only that). He is an ill man who tries to free his mind from his dying body, in some way one of the strongest dreams of humanity. As usual, the problem comes when he wants everyone to follow his example. Also, the parallel universe is a nice idea because it isn't again too common. The plot is well drawn and credible from the beginning to the end, and most of characters are great (except Rose who's depressing as usual). Still, I have difficulties to rank it among the "great" episodes, maybe because it is never really surprising and there's no real twist. Again maybe I'm too severe, but I'll give it a 3.

7. The idiot's lantern : Neither bad nor especially good. It is thrilling and well-done enough to be convincing, but nothing more. 2.

8/9. The impossible planet/The Satan pit : This is one of my favorites, and there is a lot to like in it. First of all, it inaugurates the tradition of "team episodes", with the doctor meeting and interacting with a little team of space travelers (42, silence in the library and the waters of Mars will all follow this example). I think I can say this is one of the most intense episode, with a lot of mysterious elements which remain partly unsolved. I like how even the doctor is unable to really understand what's happening (his reaction to the phrase "before the time" is extraordinary). And how even the Tardis is unable to translate the mysterious language... All this gives the impression that somehting beyond the universe's limits is happening in this mysterious little planet. As I said, formidable episode, the best of the season. 5.

10. Love & Monsters : Meh. It can be a funny interlude between two more serious episodes, but there's nothing particularly likable in this episode. Even the fun is quite banal (interestingly, the funniest episodes are also the most thrilling ones, remember The doctor dances). 1.

11. Fear her : Good episode, pretty thrilling and mysterious. The idea isn't bad, even though the idea that a little creature can erase the entire universe simply by drawing it is a bit crazy (but we are used to crazy ideas in this series ). 2

12/13. Army of ghosts/Doomsday : Can't say I dislike it, but that's still my least favorite season finale (all right, the standard is very high ). I'm not disappointed to see the cybermen back (especially because the scenarists had the good idea to leave us alone with them for a long time following this episode), and the daleks could have came back in a worse way. Torchwood and all was pretty funny, especially how the Doctor interacts with them. I didn't particularly like the "fissure" between the two universes, neither the arch containing thousands (or trillions ?) of Daleks, but everything was well-orchestrated. Of course what ruins everything is the awful pseudo-romantic ending. All this "OMG Doctor I can't live without youuuuuuuuuuu !" and "OMG Rose I'll miss you but you'll be happy with your new family !" was painful to hear. And hell, thanks God the doctor didn't have the time to tell he loves her. 3.

[Sibboleth]

New Earth was beyond vile.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

You have really weird opinions.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Yeah, I'd say that Army of Ghosts/Doomsday was my second favorite season finale (after Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords). It brought back the Daleks as they normally do, but at least we got to see them take on the Cybermen in an epic showdown.

[Californian Tony]

You have really weird opinions.

I've been told that on numerous occasions and for various reasons, so it must be true. Bother developping, though ?

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Giving Fear Her a better rating than anything else, since it's pretty much universally considered the worst episode of the new series, for example.

School Reunion is also one of my favorite episodes. Mostly for Sarah Jane, because Elisabeth Sladen is really a much better actress than you would expect from the classic series, but I really thought Tony Head did a good job of being the stereotypically-polite-but-menacing Doctor Who villain.

I also thought The Girl in the Fireplace was generally considered one of the best episodes of the new series. I haven't rewatched it since I first saw it three or four years ago, so I'm not sure how it holds up.

I mean, are you going to give Blink a 2 as well?

[Californian Tony]

Was writing a long post about The Girl in the Fireplace and explorer bugged. Here's a synthesis, because there's nothing more painful than trying to rewrite something you just wrote.

Maybe I underrated it, so I guess I will eventually give it a 3. But what this episode really lacks is some more twists and tension : as far as I remember, there is no moment when the doctor seems really in difficulty. I still rank it below my other 3-rated episodes.

Fear her the worst episode of the series ? For real ? Come on, what about Rose, Love & Monsters, or Partners in crime ?!? Some moments in Fear her were really thrilling at least. Of course as I've said, the ability of canceling the entire universe by drawing makes the episode hard to be taken seriously, but there were far worse ideas.

Sarah Jane was nice as I said, the school's director wasn't bad either. But having good characters is pretty useless when the plot is as dull and uninteresting as School reunion's was. That's wasted talent.

I think most of our judgements depend on what we think to be more important in an episode between plot, atmosphere, characters, action, etc... So everything is entirely subjective and I can understand why we can disagree. Also to note, I think I have a very strong pro-two-parter bias, but again it's understandable (you need a lot time to develop a good plot and makes us take it seriously).

[Sibboleth]

but I really thought Tony Head did a good job of being the stereotypically-polite-but-menacing Doctor Who villain.

Absolutely.

[Californian Tony]

While waiting for new Irish result, I'll do season 3.

S. The runaway bride : An improvement compared to previous year's special, but still not particularly interesting. The scene with the Doctor looking at the Racnoss dying is pretty good though. 1.

1. Smith and Jones : Martha is great, and her first appearance is extremely promising for the rest of the season. But apart from her and her interactions with the doctor, there isn't much to see in this episode. 1.

2. The Shakespeare code : Usual uninteresting historical episode at the beginning of the season. Neither better nor worse than the others. 1.

3. Gridlock : Very creative episode, very promising for the rest of the season. I've enjoyed the atmosphere of angst, the feeling that the whole system is broken (the police that never answers, all these people who go to the highway without even knowing what will happen to them)... It is almost perfect in showing what anarchy is, and how people don't even know that everything is out of control. The revelation of the death of all senators is a particularly forceful scene. Of course there is Face of Boe's revelation, which is the main point of the entire season. But it lacks too much things to be a great episode : the enemies (giant crabs) are pretty pathetic), and the action could have been orchestrated better. I'd give it a high 2, but maybe it would deserve more.

4/5. Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks : A formidable episode I've particularly enjoyed. Beginning with the historical context : excellent idea to locate it during the Great Depression, this epoch fits extremely well with the story itself. Otherwise, that's mostly an episode about change and those who are wise enough to understand when it's necessary, about fanatism and how it only leads people to hurt others and themselves. I've really liked the picture they give of Daleks, as mindless creatures who hate everything that isn't 100% like them. Dalek Sec is a very interesting characters, it symbolizes people who have the courage to leave their comfortable ignorance in order to get a better understanding on the word between them, and who eventually get rejected by their former community. There are a lot of very sad deaths in this episodes (Solomon, Dalek Sec, the human-Dalek-Time Lords), and that makes it very forceful in feelings (what is particularly beautiful is seeing the doctor personally affected by the death of people he almost didn't know). Finally, the action is perfectly managed, with enough twists to get thrilled until the end. Really, I don't see what is not to like with this episode. I wouldn't call it a masterpiece because it lacks some emphasis (ie the ability to make us feel that something important is at stake - of course something important is almost always at stake, but some episodes make us feel it better). A fully deserved. 4.

6. The Lazarus experiment : Kind of disappointing, because it had the potential to  be better : having things going a bit slower (we practically see the transformation in the first scenes), a more ambiguous enemy, involving more feelings/complexity... But what we actually have is the doctor and Martha fighting against a horrendous (to say least) creature, and nothing more. 1.

[Snowguy716]

Amy is amazing. What I like about this relationship (and part of the reason why I liked Catherine Tate as Donna) is that her and the Doctor are friends. No romantic tension; they are just 'mates.'

I really liked Donna.  Martha as well... both were great for completely different reasons.  Rose was also good... it's not that hard to impress me I guess.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

     Yeah, I'd say that Army of Ghosts/Doomsday was my second favorite season finale (after Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords). It brought back the Daleks as they normally do, but at least we got to see them take on the Cybermen in an epic showdown.

I would actually rate The Parting of the Ways as the best new series finale mainly due to the fact that it was well built up and it didn't disappoint (well not as much as it could have).

The Series 3 finale (the Master trilogy) would have been the best had they not ****ed with the ending of Last of the Time Lords.  I mean, seriously?  Psychic energy?  Come on RTD, at least come up with something that's a little more gritty.

However, this is discounting the Series 5 finale which I personally loved, mainly due to it's timey-wimey wackiness.    And that it probably delivered one of the most awesome speeches in the new series so far (The Doctor at Stonehenge yelling at this enemies).  Of course, I don't really see it as a finale as it's not truly the end of the storyline....just a climax to one part of it.

[Fmr. Emperor PiT]

     Yeah, I'd say that Army of Ghosts/Doomsday was my second favorite season finale (after Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords). It brought back the Daleks as they normally do, but at least we got to see them take on the Cybermen in an epic showdown.

I would actually rate The Parting of the Ways as the best new series finale mainly due to the fact that it was well built up and it didn't disappoint (well not as much as it could have).

The Series 3 finale (the Master trilogy) would have been the best had they not ****ed with the ending of Last of the Time Lords.  I mean, seriously?  Psychic energy?  Come on RTD, at least come up with something that's a little more gritty.

However, this is discounting the Series 5 finale which I personally loved, mainly due to it's timey-wimey wackiness.    And that it probably delivered one of the most awesome speeches in the new series so far (The Doctor at Stonehenge yelling at this enemies).  Of course, I don't really see it as a finale as it's not truly the end of the storyline....just a climax to one part of it.

     I don't remember the Season 1 finale all that well. I think I will watch it again soon.

     Doctor Who season finales are rather notorious for nonsensical cop-out plot devices, so that didn't really bother me too much about the Season 3 finale. One detail that I really liked about the Master three-parter was that the breaks between the episodes felt very natural. The second & third parts did not feel like they were picking up at an arbitrary point in a story in progress, even though they really were.

     As for the Season 5 finale, I actually found the wackiness rather offputting, since it struck me as a fairly contrived means of advancing the plot & filling up time that introduced a handful of paradoxes & plot holes that lacked resolution. I thought the climax was the most awesome I had seen in any Doctor Who season finale, though.

[Californian Tony]

I must say my favorite season finale is actually season 3's. I've liked everything, even its ending. Actually, it is maybe my favorite episode of the entire series.

[afleitch]

New series trailer looks amazing...and those shadowy figures....

[Californian Tony]

I have the last 3 episodes of season 5 still to watch. Christmas special not coming before... next Christmas.