Foreign Policy Reform Act of 2010 (Law'd)
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Author Topic: Foreign Policy Reform Act of 2010 (Law'd)  (Read 4232 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: November 23, 2010, 06:08:38 PM »
« edited: December 04, 2010, 11:28:39 PM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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snowguy716
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 06:37:10 PM »

I see no problem with this other than that it should probably be edited to make it gender-neutral.  We won't attract women to Atlasia by assuming every elected or appointed government official is a male.  Wink
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 06:42:36 PM »

I see no problem with this other than that it should probably be edited to make it gender-neutral.  We won't attract women to Atlasia by assuming every elected or appointed government official is a male.  Wink

You can offer that as a friendly  amendment you know. Wink
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Badger
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 07:45:15 PM »

I'm a big supporter in increasing the role and importance in foreign affairs, and have some specific storylines in mind for the immediate future. That said, I absolutely oppose Line 1 of this bill for several reasons.

First off, as long as the GM is active they should be given ample discretion to develop storylines, foreign or domestic, at the pace and time length they deem most enjoyable to the game. I'm opposed to any mandated rate of storylines for this reason. Secondly, even IF a mandated rate of any sort were appropriate (and again, it isn't), one story line every two weeks is FAR too excessive. I'm not worried about the work; I want storylines that can flow, ebb and reoccur over a long period of time, as well as those which are sudden immediate crisises. What I believe no one wants is an interesting storyline being interupted or delayed because the GM is mandated to open a new "event".

This requirement focuses on quantity, not quality. At that rate we're frankly going to get some pretty uninteresting events. As the loyal servant of the government, I'll go along with the requirements of what is passed, but I fear its not going to be pretty. Tongue

I respectfully request--nay, urge--the Senate to remove Section 1 from this otherwise fine and exciting piece of legislation.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 08:20:39 PM »

Since I'm the one who initiated the project and wrote most of it, with valuable SoEA suggestions, and since it's become Administration initiative, I'd just like to say few words.

Foreign-related events are neglected. SoEA, whether it was Ben, Hashemite or someone else, was basically reduced to a dude who posted some updates, nobody really cared about.

We have an opportunity to finally make foreign-related events a valuable addition to the game, which is only going to serve

Echoing Badger's concerns, I'd be perfectly happy with someone of you offering an Amendment specifying, that it may not be new event, but GM have to cover foreign-related event, whether new or continuation of the previous one, once per 2 weeks.

Because, Badger, your activity as GM is a KEY of this reform. Otherwise, it's pointless waste of a time.

If we abandon a required scheduled, it's going to end as always.
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Hash
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 08:51:19 PM »

Obviously, I fully support the entirety of this bill.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 09:02:08 PM »

I think Hash and Kal are right about this. As much as I think flexibility is a good thing, in this case, we need some hard deadlines. The situation in Foreign Affairs activity has reached a critical state and we need some serious changes to try and reverse that trend.
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2010, 09:02:09 PM »

Obviously, I fully support the entirety of this bill.

Just like I did months ago.
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Hash
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 09:42:52 PM »


Can you please drop the attitude? It's annoying.
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Badger
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 09:50:51 PM »

I agree the GM's activity is a key part of this bill. Which perhaps means the GM could've/should've been consulted for his input on the measure, no?

"Critical State"? In the long term, perhaps. Like I said, and agree 100%, foreign affairs have long been ignored in Atlasia. GMs simply haven't put great emphasis on it. Even a great GM like PS had his New Mexico crisis, Chinese navel maneuvers near Taiwanese claimed islands and, well that's about it IIRC. Reversing that trend is a firm goal of mine as GM. It WILL be done.

But mandated events twice a month? Quantity vs. quality. This is not the way to go. I urge the Senate to give new direction from the GM's Office an opportunity before turning foreign policy storylines into the storyline equivalent of fast food.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 12:57:30 AM »

I agree the GM's activity is a key part of this bill. Which perhaps means the GM could've/should've been consulted for his input on the measure, no?

"Critical State"? In the long term, perhaps. Like I said, and agree 100%, foreign affairs have long been ignored in Atlasia. GMs simply haven't put great emphasis on it. Even a great GM like PS had his New Mexico crisis, Chinese navel maneuvers near Taiwanese claimed islands and, well that's about it IIRC. Reversing that trend is a firm goal of mine as GM. It WILL be done.

But mandated events twice a month? Quantity vs. quality. This is not the way to go. I urge the Senate to give new direction from the GM's Office an opportunity before turning foreign policy storylines into the storyline equivalent of fast food.

Who says quality has to suffer? It can, but that doesn't mean it definately will.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 06:53:51 AM »

I agree the GM's activity is a key part of this bill. Which perhaps means the GM could've/should've been consulted for his input on the measure, no?

Will all due respect, Badger, but now you're talking like most GMs before you.

The only way to ensure that GM is even going to take care on this is to mandate this. Otherwise, it's going to end as usual...
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Badger
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 08:38:56 AM »

I agree the GM's activity is a key part of this bill. Which perhaps means the GM could've/should've been consulted for his input on the measure, no?

Will all due respect, Badger, but now you're talking like most GMs before you.

The only way to ensure that GM is even going to take care on this is to mandate this. Otherwise, it's going to end as usual...

I have NO intention whatsoever of being a "usual" GM.....
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Fritz
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 10:28:13 AM »

Badger, I don't think the concern is with you here, but GM's that will follow you.

I agree that Badger should have been consulted in the drafting of this legislation, and for that I apologise to him.  I will not support this legislation without the GM's support.

I also agree that some mandate is called for, though two weeks may be excessive.  Badger, would once a month be more reasonable?  Coupled with Kal's suggestion that it need not be a new event?


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Badger
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 11:33:10 AM »

Badger, I don't think the concern is with you here, but GM's that will follow you.

I agree that Badger should have been consulted in the drafting of this legislation, and for that I apologise to him.  I will not support this legislation without the GM's support.

I also agree that some mandate is called for, though two weeks may be excessive.  Badger, would once a month be more reasonable?  Coupled with Kal's suggestion that it need not be a new event?


I think Kal's suggestion to allow events to be continuations/updates of open storylines is excellent--even crucial. Even then, I'd say biweekly is far too structured. Again, it's by no means the work; it's making storylines and events forced and of substandard content that concerns me. Since we're looking at the long term (who says there'll be GM's after me? Cheesy), I'd suggest starting slow with a bimonthly requirement. If that doesn't meet the government's needs, even after suitable prodding from the SoEA, we can up the requirements. But since we're breaking new ground here, I firmly suggest we do so cautiously.

A foreign event or update every two months minimum? Sure, I could get behind that---though I fully intend to exceed that pace on my own anyway. Smiley
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Purple State
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 12:14:02 PM »

Over-legislating the responsibilities of the GM is a bad, bad idea. The GM thrives off of flexibility and honestly, at the end of the day, the people and the Senate never really cared about foreign affairs when I was GM. Aside from the bigger storylines, I had global region-by-region sub-stories on a relatively frequent basis...and those were largely ignored. So were the GTO meetings.

Here is my question to those who support this mandate: what happens if the GM breaks this law? Is there a penalty, or is this just a toothless bill that makes the Senate feel as though they are "on top of things"?
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Fritz
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 12:56:18 PM »

The same thing that happens to the RG if he doesn't update the voter list every two weeks as mandated: nothing.  Tongue

It could be grounds for impeachment, or dismissal by the President.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 01:57:25 PM »

All right, I'm hereby removing myself from any administration activity in a light of GM and my boss stance.

With Badger "suggestions" (why every GM must turn out to be cowardish failure?), this bill is an useless piece and in my opinion, you can just reject it now.
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Badger
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 04:07:22 PM »

All right, I'm hereby removing myself from any administration activity in a light of GM and my boss stance.

With Badger "suggestions" (why every GM must turn out to be cowardish failure?), this bill is an useless piece and in my opinion, you can just reject it now.

Easy Kal, that's a bit of an overreaction, no? Sad I've always been (and remain) 100% behind 3/4 of the bill, and have come around to support the principles behind Clause 1. The only remaining difference is whether to mandate foreign events/updates every two weeks (far too structured for the reasons Purple State gave) or two months (a good cautious start, IMHO, which can always be upped if needed and I fully intend to exceed on my own anyway.)

It's all good.

How you Midwesterners say? Oh yes: "Hughughughughug". Smiley
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 05:02:07 PM »

Tell, be, Badger, is that ego problem (nobody asked me to allow it) or just you don't feel able to write something about foreign relations once per two weeks?

Since I doubt it's the former, I must conclude that any GM who can't make one foreign policy entry per two week... is just another of long line of disengaged GMs.

The 3/4 of the bill are worthless demonstration without clausule 1.
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Hash
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 05:03:29 PM »

All right, I'm hereby removing myself from any administration activity in a light of GM and my boss stance.

With Badger "suggestions" (why every GM must turn out to be cowardish failure?), this bill is an useless piece and in my opinion, you can just reject it now.

Easy Kal, that's a bit of an overreaction, no? Sad I've always been (and remain) 100% behind 3/4 of the bill, and have come around to support the principles behind Clause 1. The only remaining difference is whether to mandate foreign events/updates every two weeks (far too structured for the reasons Purple State gave) or two months (a good cautious start, IMHO, which can always be upped if needed and I fully intend to exceed on my own anyway.)

It's all good.

How you Midwesterners say? Oh yes: "Hughughughughug". Smiley

I might agree to a minimum of one event per month, but two months I'll never get behind.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 05:04:55 PM »

All right, I'm hereby removing myself from any administration activity in a light of GM and my boss stance.

With Badger "suggestions" (why every GM must turn out to be cowardish failure?), this bill is an useless piece and in my opinion, you can just reject it now.

Easy Kal, that's a bit of an overreaction, no? Sad I've always been (and remain) 100% behind 3/4 of the bill, and have come around to support the principles behind Clause 1. The only remaining difference is whether to mandate foreign events/updates every two weeks (far too structured for the reasons Purple State gave) or two months (a good cautious start, IMHO, which can always be upped if needed and I fully intend to exceed on my own anyway.)

It's all good.

How you Midwesterners say? Oh yes: "Hughughughughug". Smiley

I might agree to a minimum of one event per month, but two months I'll never get behind.

Per month, very minimalistic, very unambitious, very "more of the same, eg. nothing"... but obviously we can't get anything better from President and GM.

Don't blame me nor SoEA.
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Fritz
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 07:13:52 PM »

Badger, I think once per month is a fine compromise that will be accepted by the authors of this bill; namely my Veep and SoEA.  You have suggested bi-monthly, but you also say that you intend to exceed that minimum.  If you're going to do better than every two months anyways, what is the harm of writing it into the bill?

That being said, would a Senator please introduce an amendment changing every two weeks to once per month.  Thank you.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 07:21:33 PM »

Scary portent of the future, I am the only Senator who has posted in this thread so far. Angry I think the Senate needs "structure" and "standards" far more but its like getting a group of crooks to vote to establish firmer penalties for theft.


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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 07:24:35 PM »

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Amendment offered and accepted as friendly.


Senators have 24 hours to object.
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