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|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  Election What-ifs? (Moderators: Bacon King, Dallasfan65)
| | |-+  A Second Chance
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Question: Should I go on?
Yes   -65 (79.3%)
I don't care   -5 (6.1%)
No   -3 (3.7%)
Hell No!   -9 (11%)
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Total Voters: 82

Author Topic: A Second Chance  (Read 78764 times)
tmthforu94
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« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2010, 01:47:33 pm »
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No!!! Sad
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« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2010, 05:23:11 pm »
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No!!! Sad

Romney was actually the most Liberal of the three candidates in the race.
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« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2010, 07:10:00 pm »
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November 6th, 1968
At a cabinet meeting, President John F Kennedy watches the last person sit down as he begins speaking. Among the people there, there are Attorney General Robert F Kennedy, Treasury Secretary Robert McNamara, Defense Secretary John Connally, and Secretary of State Henry M Jackson. Other people there with less significant roles are Labor Secretary Lloyd Bentsen (who was Adlai's replacement after his death), National Security Adviser Omar Bradley, and newly re-instated CIA Director Sargent Shriver.
    Jack: Well, boys, we did it. Four more years to get this damn war right. Scoop, how's the deal with Vietnam going?
    Scoop: Congratulations on your re-election, and not well, Jack. They still refuse to budge. I've said time and time again that they will only negotiate for victory. We need to pound them into the ground.
    Connally: Jack and I agree on this. The enemy continues to get stronger everyday that we aren't out there hitting them hard.
    McNamara: Personal feelings aside, the fact is, the American people are tired of this war. We either win or pull out. There's no room for middle ground in this.
    Jack: What do either of you propose?
    Sargent: From what everyone here has been briefed on this morning, we all know that the Ho Chi Minh Trail is the main supply line that gives weaponry to the Vietcong. However, there are other, smaller supply routes. Both the CIA and Army Intelligence are working on finding these. So far, the bombing runs have been ineffective.
    Connally: Not completely, though. We have continued to inflict serious damage on their manpower. However, they continue recruiting. Over all, we needa continually more agressive strategy to combat them.
    Bobby: Are you sure that diplomacy will fail, Scoop?
    Scoop: The only way for it to work is for us to convince them that without negotiating, they'd be dead. And by that point, we'd already have victory in our grasp and would have no need to negotiate.
    Jack: **Sigh**...Bradley, what do you think?
    Bradley: It's not just bombings. With bombings, the pilots can't even see what they're hitting. We need to develop a new strategy for ground troops that allows us to adapt to the terrain there. This isn't World War II anymore and we're not fighiting Nazi Germany.
    Jack: Gentlemen, I want to know just how many damn times we're going to have to revise our strategy.
    Connally: Jack, c'mon...
    Jack: I want to know! I want to win this, but every time something fails we have to develop a whole new strategy! What does it take?
    Bradley: This war needs to be fought differently. That's the answer. The entire military is out of line with the war we're fighting.
    Jack: Tell me what it takes...
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« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2010, 08:12:08 pm »
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With Kennedy's decision to begin excessive bombing of North Vietnam, several Democrats, myself included, began to wonder what party we were really in. I was in the Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern camp, those of us who opposed the war. We had already been upset enough by Kennedy's role in continuing the war, and when it was announced days after the '68 election that he woudl be escalating the conflict, several of us had to take a look around. I mean, Kennedy had been one of the two pro-war candidates in the race, and the "peace" candidate had been the Republican, George Romney. That's when, in our heads, we questioned who would be our voice in the future, the voice for peace.
                               -The Death of the Democrats, Mike Gravel, (c) 1996
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« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2010, 04:25:46 pm »
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February 3rd, 1969
On the floor of the Senate, President Kennedy's proposal, the creation of an environmental protection agency, is debated. The debate rages between two of the Senate's greatest voices, Senator Ronald Reagan of California, and Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts. The bill, called The Environmental Protection Act, has been authored by Senator Kennedy, a favor for his brother.
     Reagan: I can not and will not vote for this bill, this monstrosity which you, Senator Kennedy, have put before the American people. This will only lead to continued government expansion, which has continued and has not stopped since the Great Depression and President Roosevelt's New Deal. The money that it will take to fund this comes directly from the tax payers' pockets, and the only direct result they will get back is to be a little poorer after Tax Day.
    Ted: Apparently, Senator Reagan, you have not read the bill, which contains a tax not on the working class, but on the rich. Apparently, you do not have a notino of what this is for, and I'll tell you what it's for. This is to protect the environment from continued abuse by large corporations, pumping pollutants into the air. This can only result in good.
    Reagan: Well, 'apparently', you do not realize the implications of government growth or tax growth for that matter. With each cent taken from anyone, it is one that could have been used towards the purchase of a product, which have provided a company, which employs people, money. And you claim to be for the Middle class. The continued government expansion, tax or no tax, will only increase the deficit, leading to massive inflation. This will only be the beginnign of America's problems.

It was there, on that Senate floor, debating about the Environmental Protection Act, that Ronald Reagan's run for the Whitehouse began.
                                                            -Right From the Beginning, Patrick J Buchanan, (c) 1987
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« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2010, 01:44:41 pm »
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Around that point in 1969, Agnew began meeting with different leaders of the Republican party. This was after his failed 1968 bid for the Vice-Presidency, which ahd caused people to turn his way. After that, Agnew started to become a little more pretentious, meeting with some of the major names of the Conservative wing of the party, even abandoning his mentor, Nelson Rockefeller. Just about every month or so, one of us in the House of Delegates would go up to his office, and he'd be in there talking with someone. Oh, they were all there, Senator Reagan, Senator Goldwater, James Buckley, every one of those new 'leading Conservatives', a movement that Agnew seemed so willing to be part of. That was when it began.
                                                    -1975 interview with Maryland Governor Marvin Mendel
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« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2010, 01:52:29 pm »
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February 16th, 1969
With the passing of the Environmental Protection Act, we have ensured a future for out children. A future not filled with smoky air and murky waters, but filled with a bright sense of life, where in every corner of our country, life flourishes and our children can run in the grass and enjoy every cool breeze. That is the world I want for my children, and at last, we have helped to give them that world.
                             -President John F Kennedy after the passing of the Environmental Protection Act
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« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2010, 02:03:49 pm »
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February 17th, 1969
In the Oval Office, President John F Kennedy has agreed to speak with freshman Alaska Senator Mike Gravel, who was just elected in a tight race the previous year.
    Jack: Hello, Senator Gravel
(Gravel shakes Kennedy's outstretched hand)
    Gravel: Hello, Mr. President. Congratulations on the passing of the Environmental Protection Act. I was one of its biggest supporters.
    Jack: Thank you. It was one of the bills I really hoped to pass. I was worried there with that filibuster Reagan and Thurmond tried to pull. Luckily, we got it through. Now, according to my secretary, there's something you want to talk about?
    Gravel: Yes Sir. I'd like to talk about nuclear weapons.
    Jack: Anything specific?
    Gravel: A nuclear freeze. With the EPA, and your signing it, I knew that you knew as well as I the fragility of our world. I think that in this office, we can be part of something much bigger.
    Jack: (chuckles) I'm not sure what you mean.
    Gravel: With both America and the Soviets building their nuclear arsenals, and each side committed to destroying the other, we need a compromise. I propose that you meet with the Soviets and agree to a complete hault of nuclear arms production. This can help save our children President Kennedy. I hope you can understand this.
    Jack: I'm afraid not. I'm commited to peace as much as you, Mike, but the Soviets, I assure you, have no intention of giving up their nuclear arsenals. I've met with them several times and I know it won't work. Congratulations on your victory last year, that was a tight race.
    Gravel: Well, I guess I'll be going then, Mr. President.
    Jack: Goodbye. Good luck in the Senate. You're going to need it.
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« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2010, 02:42:31 pm »
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May 9th, 1969
In a rare interview with former Michigan Governor George Romney...
    Reporter: Well, first off, Mr. Governor I'd like to thank you for agreeing to this interview.
    Romney: O-of course. I myself wanted to take an opportunity to answer lingering questions about my candidacy.
    Reporter: To start everything off, when did you first decide that you shoudl run for President.
    Romney: It was in mid-1967 when Kennedy decided to send over 30,000 more troops to Vietnam. That's what really made me think about running for President.
    Reporter: Secondly, when did you decide that you though Senator Mark Hatfield would be the right choice for your running mate.
    Romney: I originally met Senator Hatfield in a 1966 Governor's convention when we were the only two of the Republicans to not vote in favor of the Vietnam War. Later, when he endorsed me for President in 1967 did I think of him as a political ally. I think the time where I decided who I wanted for Vice-President, though, was after the Oregon primary where he threw his support behind my candidacy, showing me local leaders and going out of his way to help me win.
    Reporter:  Why, Governor Romney, do you think you lost?
    Romney: W-well I think that I lost because most Americans really didn't fell ready for change, and because there was a large number of Democrats that despite Kennedy's stance on the Vietnam War, stuck with him. They were lead by Senator Hubert H Humphreys for the most part.
    Reporter: Lastly, do you have any plans for your political future?
    Romney: There's going to be a Seante seat open next year, and I've been seriously considering a run for that. However, I have no more plans to be a Presidential contender.
    Reporter: Well, thank you for your time Governor Romney.
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« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2010, 08:41:33 pm »
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May 27th, 1969
The room is a hotel over looking Washinton DC. The occupants are the so-called "Conservative Underground"; speech writer Patrick J Buchanan who worked as Goldwater's campaign Press Secretary, Attorney Edwin Meese who ran in the 1966 California Republican Gubernatorial Primary but lost to former HEW Secretary Robert Finch, and William F Buckley writer of the Conservative magazine the National Review. Buchanan is currently the speech writer for a number of Conservative politicians, and Meese is Senator Ronald Reagan's legal adviser.
    Buchanan: Now, I've talked with Reagan, Goldwater, Laxalt, and others. They think we can pull this off in '72.
    Meese: But will we? 1968 would've been the prime year for us, but we botched it. If we had contested a few more primaries, we could've built up enough momentum for the convention. Instead, we leave some primaries alone while favorite sons take up Ohio and California. After that, Finch endorses Romney, and Rhoads, who's supposed to be in the bag for us endorses Rockefeller!
    Buckley: In my opinion, Reagan could've won it. Reagan is a much better speaker, and a much better politician than Goldwater. That's my opinion.
    Buchanan: So, you're saying that Goldwater shouldn't run in '72? It should be Reagan? Fine. Goldwater's gaffes have gotten us in enough trouble.
    Meese: Ronnie's willing to run, I know that. In '72, he'll have eight years in the Senate and another two and a hald as Secretary of Commerce. He'll have the experience, and God knows he has the charisma.
    Buchanan: Some of the people I know, and Bill knows them too, they feel like giving up. They're almost ready just to go with the dman Dixiecrats. Those, uh, Nannering Nabobs of Negatism will see the light.
    Buckley: We better hope so.
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« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2010, 05:38:41 pm »
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June 13th, 1969
On the floor of the Senate, Senator Mike Gravel, Democrat of Alaska, introduces legislation co-authored by himself, Senator Mark Hatfield (R-OR), and Senator George McGovern (D-SD).
    Gravel: With this Legislation, a group of Senators, including myself, proposes an end to hostilites in SouthEast Asia. American boys have dies long enough defending a dictatorship and over extending American authority. It's time to bring back our boys and welcome America home.
    Reagan: Senator, what you are suggesting is complete surrender in Vietnam.
    Gravel: If surrender is what it takes to save American lives, then surrender it shall be.
    Byrd: This is ridiculous! What you want is an outright forfeit of every American base and piece of land outside of mainland America to the Soviet Union!
    Hatfield: Senator Byrd, what you just said is ridiculous. You propose that we have American troops, the sons of our nation, die in every jungle, desert, and mountain range to battle the Soviet Union. America can not do that and will colapse trying to.
    Byrd: You want the Soviets to win, don't you Senator Hatfield, and you Senator Gravel. Let America hear it! Let it ring from valley to valley that our own American Senators want Soviet victory!
    President Pro Tempore Richard Russel Jr. Order! Order!

As the debate in the Senate desolves between Conservatives and Liberals, former President Richard Nixon sits at his home in Yorba Linda California. He is watching the news, which reports race riots, peace protests, and fierce debate within the government.
    Nixon: Pat, what do you think of this situation?
    Pat: I don't know, Dick. It looks awfully messy.
    Nixon: I think I could right it, Pat. 1972 could be the year of my vindication.
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« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2010, 08:23:36 pm »
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June 17th, 1969
I am sorry to say today that I can not endorse the Saigon Act proposed by Senators Hatfield, Gravel, and McGovern. It would indicate a total abandonment of the cause thousand of soldiers have died for. This woudl only increase communist strength and bolden them, while at the same time saying to thousands of dead Americans that we are not there to honor the cause they fought for. I will not endorse and it, and under the unlikely circumstances that it should ever reach my desk, I would veto it.
-President John F Kennedy on the Saigon Act, which proposed a complete withdrawal of American forces from Vietnam

George McGovern and John F Kennedy-once allies, now enemies
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« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2010, 09:00:32 pm »
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July 3rd, 1969
Following the failure of the Saigon Act late last month, Senator Mike Gravel, now becoming a familiar face in the Senate after only half a year in office, has made headlines with his twenty hour filibuster in protest of Kennedy's actions in the Vietnam War, after which he collapsed onto his desk in utter exhaustion. While longer filibusters have happened before, this does not mean that this specific filibuster is not significant. Gravel is expected to return to the Senate tomorrow, fully recovered.

Alaska's Two Senators-Mike Gravel (D) on the left, and Ted Stevens (R) on the right

That first year in the Senate was very informative to me about how it really worked at the top. And I was disgusted by what I saw. Kennedy had no intention of ending the war, neither did practically any other Republican or Democrat in that chamber. By 1972, I had grown tired of the way the Senate worked and had set my sights elsewhere.
                                               -The Death of the Democrats, Mike Gravel (c) 1996
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« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2010, 09:15:54 pm »
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What we saw between 1964 and 1972 was a large amount of infighting in the Democratic Party. Each of the three sides of the party; the Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives; seemed to be at odds with each other. While many Conservative Democrats, led by George Wallace, Orville Faubus, and Strom Thurmond, formed the Dixiecrats Party, this did not stop Kennedy's Centrists from engaging in near political war with George McGovern's Liberals, including Alaska Senator Mike Gravel and Minnesota Senator Eugene McCarthy. One of the Senators caught in between all of this infighting was Minnesota Senator Hubert H Humphrey who was an ally of both the Kennedys and the McGovern wing. All of this infighting of course, we utilized to advance the Conservative cause.
                                       -Right From the Beginning, Patrick J Buchanan (c) 1987
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« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2010, 09:16:40 pm »
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Comments, Questions, Critiques, Complaints, Compliments?
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« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2010, 10:00:36 pm »
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Continue! Smiley
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« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2010, 10:01:42 pm »
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Suuuuure, Agnew kept Centrists like Rockefeller around. He didn't completely abandon the moderate wing of the Republican Party. Agnew was determined to be all things to everyone in order to get on the good side of every different wing of the Republican Party. He took it upon himself to fill the role that Nixon had left in 1964, the uniter of the Liberal and Conservative wings. However, Agnew intended to pull it off with some success. He met with both Buchanan and Safire, talking about things such as segregation and the Vietnam War. Mainly, he wanted to know how to balance his rhetoric so that if you were pro-Segregation, he was your man, and if you were Pro-Civil Rights, he was your man. He began to pull it off very flawlessy when he went on visits out of state, mostly to the South. We in the Assembly watched this unfold over the news, both on paper on television.
                                                    -1975 interview with Maryland Governor Marvin Mendel
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« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2010, 11:36:10 pm »
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August 6th, 1969
As Congressman George Bush of Texas leaves his car to enter the capital, he is mobbed by reporters. During his short tenure as Congressman, having entered the House of Representatives in 1967, he has made his mark as a "maverick" on policy and has shown that whiel he supports the Conservatives in some places, he's willing to work with the other side too, and has voted for the Envirnomental Protection Act earlier this year. Now the debate turns to the Civil Rights Act of 1969.
    Reporter 1: Congressman Bush! Will you be voting for the Civil Rights Act? What about Conservative criticism?
    Reporter 2: You ahve been criticized as being a Rockefeller Republican and a Nixon protege. How do you respond?
    Bush: Yes, I will be voting for the Civil Rights Act this afternoon. The Conservatives in this country don't know what they're talking about. This act can give a ray of hope to those minority communities in reversing the trend of poverty.
    Reporter 3: Do you think this will be the final act? That this can accomplish what all the others have been leading up to?
    Bush: I really have no idea. We have had several Civil Rights Acts, each an improvement on the preceding. However, I don't know where we will move from here.
    Reporter 4: Are you planning on running for Senate again against Raph Yarborough in 1970?
    Bush: As of right now, I don't know. Right now, I'm concentrated on my duties as Congressman. Within six months, however, I'll know.

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« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2010, 11:54:23 pm »
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At that point in 1969, Bush was practically a political nobody. He'd had the limelight on him before, though. In 1964 he'd run against Ralph Yarborough and lost. In 1968 he was considered a possible Vice-Presidential pick. However, he was still just a second term Congressman and the son of a former Connecticut Senator. In 1970, we tried to change that. However, in 1969 we had no idea where we'd be taken.
                                      -What the Man was Made of, James Baker (c) 1999
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« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2010, 09:24:56 am »
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As Peace Protests continue to mount whiel race riots leave cities such as  Chicago and Detroit in flames, some state governments have reacted oppositely. In states such as Texas, Ohio, and Maryland, their Governors are hard at work combatting any and all riots. Governors Tower, Rhoads, and Agnew have become known as some of the toughest Governors in the union. However, some question their methods when dealing with the protesters, several of which end up injured or in jail. Nevetheless, it appears these Governors are unwilling to give up.
-August Edition of Time Magazine; Article: The War at Home: A Profile of the Effects of the Vietnam War in America
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« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2010, 10:11:48 am »
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August 27th, 1969
At a meeting with the National Security Council, including Secretary of State Henry M Jackson, Secretary of Defense John Connally, National Security Adviser Omar Bradley, and Director of Central Intelligence Sargent Shriver, President Kennedy plans his next move in the war with Vietnam.
    Jack: So, gentlemen, what have you gathered since yesterday?
    Sargent: A great deal, Jack. It's possible, and it would end the conflict in Vietnam by next year. This is our best shot. Either we do this, or we pull out. We're fighting a losing battle down there.
    Connally: This could be it, Jack. This is our best chance to settle the war once and for all.
    Bradley: In the land war, we still have training to do. If we are able to properly train our men, we could have the war done in two years without this.
    Jack: Scoop, how have the talks gone?
    Scoop: Jack, the talks continue to stall. I've reiterated several times that they want victory, and we better want it too.
    Jack: Do you think this coudl be victory?
    Scoop: Highly likely. This will restore American credibility, not only in South Easter Asia, but across the world. This will end the war and restore your credibility with the American people.
    Jack: If the majority of us are in agreement, John, call the Pentagon and request the initiation of Operation HANOI.
    Connally: Right away, Jack.
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« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2010, 11:31:57 am »
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With the commencement of Operation HANOI, a ful linvasion of Northern Vietnam, we had had it. Kennedy cared no more for American lives than for anything else in his administration, which is to say very little. He was commited to this idea of continued American expansionism past the breaking point. A small group of Senators, including myself, Senator McGovern, Senator McCarthy, and even Senator Muskie to some extent became committed to the toppling of Kennedy. This of course, we attempted to realize in 1972 with the primarying of Vice-President Terry Sanford.
                  
 -The Death of the Democrats, Mike Gravel, (c) 1996
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« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2010, 11:39:46 am »
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At long last, on September 1st, 1969, with George leading a group of Moderate to Conservative Republicans in the House, the Civil Rights Act of 1969 passed. It went onto the Senate where it passed. President Kennedy proudly proclaimed it the 'final nail in the coffin of segregation'. After that success in the House, George was once again looking at that Senate seat.
-What the Man was Made of, James Baker, (c) 1999
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« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2010, 01:08:24 pm »
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July 3rd, 1969
Following the failure of the Saigon Act late last month, Senator Mike Gravel, now becoming a familiar face in the Senate after only half a year in office, has made headlines with his twenty hour filibuster in protest of Kennedy's actions in the Vietnam War, after which he collapsed onto his death in utter exhaustion. While longer filibusters have happened before, this does not mean that this specific filibuster is not significant. Gravel is expected to return to the Senate tomorrow, fully recovered.

I'm rather impressed that Gravel managed to return from the dead. Tongue I assume you meant "desk?"

Other than that minor detail, this is really good. (This qualifies as good usage of flash-forwards.) Keep it coming!
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« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2010, 03:34:28 pm »
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I'm rather impressed that Gravel managed to return from the dead. Tongue I assume you meant "desk?"

It was a medical miracle!
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