U.S. Govt Seizes 70+ Domain Names, Shuts Down Websites
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  U.S. Govt Seizes 70+ Domain Names, Shuts Down Websites
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Author Topic: U.S. Govt Seizes 70+ Domain Names, Shuts Down Websites  (Read 2405 times)
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2010, 04:50:46 PM »

I think you three missed the point.

I'm not saying that is what the government is doing. I'm saying we are giving it the authority to do just that. I'm not making an accusation. I'm only making an observation.

It's had the authority to uphold copyright laws...
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Alcon
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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2010, 05:01:00 PM »
« Edited: November 28, 2010, 05:50:46 PM by Alcon »

I think you three missed the point.

I'm not saying that is what the government is doing. I'm saying we are giving it the authority to do just that. I'm not making an accusation. I'm only making an observation.

This is like sealing a storefront used for illicit sales...you're really working to grease the slippery slope here.
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Illuminati Blood Drinker
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2010, 05:51:11 PM »

So, the vast majority of seized sites were scam sites, plus a few torrent sites.

Wow, my freedom feels so threatened.
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beneficii
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2010, 06:23:46 PM »

So, the vast majority of seized sites were scam sites, plus a few torrent sites.

Wow, my freedom feels so threatened.

I take it back, torrent-finder.com was taken down, but I saw some other sites that were also owned by the torrent-finder.com owner, so it might have been that the people had all their domain names forfeited.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2010, 07:00:58 PM »

So, the vast majority of seized sites were scam sites, plus a few torrent sites.

Wow, my freedom feels so threatened.

I take it back, torrent-finder.com was taken down, but I saw some other sites that were also owned by the torrent-finder.com owner, so it might have been that the people had all their domain names forfeited.


Torrent-finder too their own website down.
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cinyc
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2010, 07:40:07 PM »

I think you three missed the point.

I'm not saying that is what the government is doing. I'm saying we are giving it the authority to do just that. I'm not making an accusation. I'm only making an observation.

This is like sealing a storefront used for illicit sales...you're really working to grease the slippery slope here.

No, it's like sealing a storefront allegedly used for illicit sales without a trial, based solely on what the government claims to be illicit.  The US government is setting a great precedent for other countries to follow - taking sites off of the Internet world wide without a hearing from both sides.  It's all fun and games until China, Russia or European countries with stringent, nonsensical "hate speech" laws shut down websites you like for daring to question their policies or politically correct groups.
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Alcon
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2010, 07:46:26 PM »
« Edited: November 28, 2010, 07:57:30 PM by Alcon »

I think you three missed the point.

I'm not saying that is what the government is doing. I'm saying we are giving it the authority to do just that. I'm not making an accusation. I'm only making an observation.

This is like sealing a storefront used for illicit sales...you're really working to grease the slippery slope here.

No, it's like sealing a storefront allegedly used for illicit sales without a trial, based solely on what the government claims to be illicit.  The US government is setting a great precedent for other countries to follow - taking sites off of the Internet world wide without a hearing from both sides.  It's all fun and games until China, Russia or European countries with stringent, nonsensical "hate speech" laws shut down websites you like for daring to question their policies or politically correct groups.

Do they not shut down illicit business storefronts pre-trial?  They seize property during drug trials, too.  They shut down massage parlors and the like too.  You may feel this is a bad precedent, but it hardly seems unprecedented to me.  And if by "the government" you mean the issuer of the warrant, yes, but that's true in the analogy I'm making too.
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Frink
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2010, 07:48:17 PM »

I strongly hate the current working concept of intellectual property rights as enshrined by our laws, but if the US Code says that they exist in the current form the government is just doing its job by enforcing them.
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cinyc
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2010, 08:01:04 PM »

I think you three missed the point.

I'm not saying that is what the government is doing. I'm saying we are giving it the authority to do just that. I'm not making an accusation. I'm only making an observation.

This is like sealing a storefront used for illicit sales...you're really working to grease the slippery slope here.

No, it's like sealing a storefront allegedly used for illicit sales without a trial, based solely on what the government claims to be illicit.  The US government is setting a great precedent for other countries to follow - taking sites off of the Internet world wide without a hearing from both sides.  It's all fun and games until China, Russia or European countries with stringent, nonsensical "hate speech" laws shut down websites you like for daring to question their policies or politically correct groups.

Do they not shut down illicit business storefronts pre-trial?  They seize property during drug trials, too.  They shut down massage parlors and the like too.  You may feel this is a bad precedent, but it hardly seems unprecedented to me.  And if by "the government" you mean the issuer of the warrant, yes, but that's true in the analogy I'm making too.

That the civil asset forfeiture laws are controversial.  They have been abused by various governments (state, local and federal) in the past, and continue to be abused in certain situations today.

What is unprecedented is that the US government has decided to shut down websites to the rest of the world.  Its jurisdiction outside of the US is questionable, and the precedent set could be used by other countries to shut down websites that would otherwise be legal in the US.
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Zarn
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2010, 08:23:07 PM »

I'm just saying to keep an eye out. I'm not advocating what Libertas is advocating. Way to miss the point... once again.
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Alcon
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2010, 08:50:43 PM »

What is unprecedented is that the US government has decided to shut down websites to the rest of the world.  Its jurisdiction outside of the US is questionable, and the precedent set could be used by other countries to shut down websites that would otherwise be legal in the US.

OK, so the seizure isn't unprecedented (although understandably controversial), just -- you argue -- the overreach of jurisdiction.

Did they not do this with U.S.-based domain name providers, or ARIN, which I assume is subject to U.S. jurisdiction?  "The Internet" is not some location unto itself.
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dead0man
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« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2010, 08:51:39 PM »
« Edited: November 28, 2010, 10:04:11 PM by dead0man »

What is unprecedented is that the US government has decided to shut down websites to the rest of the world.  Its jurisdiction outside of the US is questionable, and the precedent set could be used by other countries to shut down websites that would otherwise be legal in the US.
How could they shut down the sites to Americans but not the world?  That's not how IP addresses work.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2010, 09:33:42 PM »

As far as I'm concerned, scammers should be shut down. If you break the law, you get shut down, it's as simple as that.

If the domain is on a United States server, the U.S. government has the authority to take the domain. I would assume that all these sites have servers that are in the United States. 
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beneficii
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2010, 10:10:36 PM »

So, the vast majority of seized sites were scam sites, plus a few torrent sites.

Wow, my freedom feels so threatened.

I take it back, torrent-finder.com was taken down, but I saw some other sites that were also owned by the torrent-finder.com owner, so it might have been that the people had all their domain names forfeited.


Torrent-finder too their own website down.

Please clarify.
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Queen Mum Inks.LWC
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« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2010, 10:21:02 PM »

So, the vast majority of seized sites were scam sites, plus a few torrent sites.

Wow, my freedom feels so threatened.

I take it back, torrent-finder.com was taken down, but I saw some other sites that were also owned by the torrent-finder.com owner, so it might have been that the people had all their domain names forfeited.


Torrent-finder too their own website down.

Please clarify.


Sorry... torrent-finder took down their own website... see my link from earlier.
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