MA: Abortion Reduction (Statute)

[California8429]

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Sponsor: A-Bob

[California8429]

Other ideas are welcome for the bill, I just though it would give us a good place to start.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

For section 2b, do you mean they are inelligible from getting a hunting/fishing license?  If so, I think that should be reworded.

Also, are we going to define "not pay[ing] their child support payments"?  Obviously, it should have to be some extended period of time... to avoid circumstances where people fall on hard times and miss a month or two.

[California8429]

For your first questions yes. Would changing exempt to inelligible cover it?

And yes, I do plan on defining what missing their childre support payments is via time frame. I was just waiting to see what everyone thought of the bill before debating how long it should be missed before these clauses kick in.

[Junkie]

A question about the funding.  It appears that the bill intends some of the tax credits and cost of enforcement to come from the $25,000 fine.  I think that might be a problem.  The defendants may be sentenced to prison and of course will still have to pay the child support.  Does it really make sense to add fines on top of that.  Even if they are ordered, the chance that they are paid at all is questionable.  I do not think we want to create a situation where defendants have to choose between paying a fine so that other people may get a tax credit or paying the child support for their own children.

[California8429]

I see your point. However, I do feel we should strongly punish this people who violate their child support payments. By taking out "and or" and replacing with "or" that solves one of the problems. However, another idea would be for those who violate their child support payments, they have to pay up to $25,000 (or whatever price) for their child. And then that child would be exempt from any tax credits included in the bill, but would get much better compensation. Of course if jail is what is ordered, then the child should still be able to receive the child deductible.

[Junkie]

I see your point. However, I do feel we should strongly punish this people who violate their child support payments. By taking out "and or" and replacing with "or" that solves one of the problems. However, another idea would be for those who violate their child support payments, they have to pay up to $25,000 (or whatever price) for their child. And then that child would be exempt from any tax credits included in the bill, but would get much better compensation. Of course if jail is what is ordered, then the child should still be able to receive the child deductible.

You could leave the punishment as is and find another revenue stream for the credits.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

[tmthforu94]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

[California8429]

I'm ardently pro-life, but where is the money for this coming from?

it will be created in our 1st budget so there's no new taxes because at the moment we don't have anything set per se

[California8429]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

[California8429]

What I would like to know is why do you think these people who haven't paid to help their child over months or years deserve to enjoy these recreations, sports, and spend money on that before the kid.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

I thought that too at first.  But as I thought about it, why should a dead-beat dad be allowed to buy a hunting/fishing license if he's not even paying his child support?  If money for him is that tight, he can't afford recreational activities like this.

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'd argue we should take away the ability to purchase any recreational licenses.  Hunting and fishing are the only 2 that come to mind.

[California8429]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

[tmthforu94]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

Being a member of this region in RL, I know several people that heavily depend on hunting as their source of food. It is also a part of our economy, and in such trying times, I don't think it's the government's place to weaken the economy even more. While some may hunt and fish purely for recreation, it serves a larger purpose for many residents, including myself.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

Being a member of this region in RL, I know several people that heavily depend on hunting as their source of food. It is also a part of our economy, and in such trying times, I don't think it's the government's place to weaken the economy even more. While some may hunt and fish purely for recreation, it serves a larger purpose for many residents, including myself.

I disagree... I come from a big hunting state too, but there are cheaper ways for people to get food, and the majority of hunters aren't doing it for mainly food purposes.  I think this should stay.

[Junkie]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

Being a member of this region in RL, I know several people that heavily depend on hunting as their source of food. It is also a part of our economy, and in such trying times, I don't think it's the government's place to weaken the economy even more. While some may hunt and fish purely for recreation, it serves a larger purpose for many residents, including myself.

I disagree... I come from a big hunting state too, but there are cheaper ways for people to get food, and the majority of hunters aren't doing it for mainly food purposes.  I think this should stay.

I agree with your disagreement.

[California8429]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

Being a member of this region in RL, I know several people that heavily depend on hunting as their source of food. It is also a part of our economy, and in such trying times, I don't think it's the government's place to weaken the economy even more. While some may hunt and fish purely for recreation, it serves a larger purpose for many residents, including myself.

I disagree... I come from a big hunting state too, but there are cheaper ways for people to get food, and the majority of hunters aren't doing it for mainly food purposes.  I think this should stay.

I agree with your disagreement.

^

We aren't destroying the industry. We're banning people from these activities when they have a child that is struggling to survive with a single mother. And as I stated, we aren't stopping hunting and fishing businesses from this, just parents who are abandoning their kid when they have a legal obligation they aren't fulfilling.

[Badger]

Why hunting or fishing? What do they have to do with child rearing and why are we targeting hunting and fishing, specifically?

Agreed. I would like to see that clause removed, unless a good explanation is made.

This is taken from Mitch Daniels. I made the bill not just abortion, but what happens after which is cruicial. Unpaying dads shouldn't be allowed to go out to the casinos or spend time hunting and fishing with their buddies and leave the kid and a single mother on their own. Granted, this wouldn't be as effective as in the west, but I still think it's an incentive as well as a penalty to those who screw up not only the child's life, but the mother's.

Oh, I agree about casinos/gambling. But why hunting and fishing?

This is partly, of course, because if you go out to the casinos, that's purely recreational, but I can't say that about hunting or fishing.

And, of course, my other argument still stands. Why are we singling out these areas? Why should one's eligibility for a license involve something that has nothing to do with hunting or fishing?

Fishing and hunting in these days are mostly, unless you are part of a fishing/hunting business. The population that hunts and fish personally and every day in order to survive really doesn't exist anymore. If you would like, I suppose there could be an amendment addressing those that do...

Being a member of this region in RL, I know several people that heavily depend on hunting as their source of food. It is also a part of our economy, and in such trying times, I don't think it's the government's place to weaken the economy even more. While some may hunt and fish purely for recreation, it serves a larger purpose for many residents, including myself.

I disagree... I come from a big hunting state too, but there are cheaper ways for people to get food, and the majority of hunters aren't doing it for mainly food purposes.  I think this should stay.

I agree with your disagreement.

^

We aren't destroying the industry. We're banning people from these activities when they have a child that is struggling to survive with a single mother. And as I stated, we aren't stopping hunting and fishing businesses from this, just parents who are abandoning their kid when they have a legal obligation they aren't fulfilling.

I agree with A-Bob, FWIW (twice in one day? ). Hunting and Fishing are licenses for activities the state directly controls, and along with drivers licenses and tax refunds are one of the ways to hit up a deadbeat dad directly. They may not be directly related to non-support of children per se, but they are unquestionably a reasonable and appropriate "carrot and stick" to enforce payment by deliquent parents.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I think we should stay away from drivers' licenses... I think that would be a legitimate hinderance to either finding or commuting to a job.

[California8429]

To Badger:

Maybe we should get some funding for a regional or national Holiday. The "peace on earth" day.

---

But I still agree with Inks on a license. I think hunting, fishing, and casinos will be very appropriate actions as it is without doing harm to the deadbeat dad in finding a job and resources for the kid (gambling doesn't count )

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

This seems mainly focused on financial incentive to stop abortions, rather than regulations. I'm not proposing a huge overhaul, but maybe a new act could be proposed dealing with regulation. Also, is there anything in the bill dealing with adoption, access to places where children can be put up for adoption, and funding for orphanages?

[California8429]

This seems mainly focused on financial incentive to stop abortions, rather than regulations. I'm not proposing a huge overhaul, but maybe a new act could be proposed dealing with regulation. Also, is there anything in the bill dealing with adoption, access to places where children can be put up for adoption, and funding for orphanages?

nope, but you are free to add amendments