Attention whoring: yet another "I'm leaving the forum" thread

[Vepres]

Well, the title speaks for itself. I don't know if anybody noticed, but I abruptly stopped posting about three weeks ago out of frustration. I never intended to post a thread of this nature, after all, I realize I'm by no means among the forum's heavyweights (such as afleitch, Al, Gramps, etc), but I feel I should express my frustrations for my own catharsis (in other words, a bit of a rant), and frankly, I really don't care if only five people read this or a hundred, as I said, it is more for personal venting than attention. Before I go off on this rant, let me say that I don't have any personal animosity towards any individual posters (well, maybe towards a few of the worst trolls, like Hamilton and pbrower, but I don't think those "count").

I guess I feel like a bit of a victim, though through this cathartic rant and subsequent leaving I hope I can do away with that mentality. I really hope this doesn't come off as whiny or anything.

While I have been particularly frustrated with aspects of this forum's culture, I do sense that there are many (predominantly on the economic right, and their moderate sympathizers) who share similar frustrations, albeit not held as intensely. Anyway, whether you really care or not, here it is (feel free to skip it, it is long):


When I first joined the forum about 1.5 years ago, I thought I had finally found a political forum that was intelligent and balanced (in the sense that all sides were represented by somebody in the community, and that they were respected), I am not sure if it is the forum culture that changed or simply my perceptions of it. Perhaps I was just ignoring the imbalances and double standards (which I will get to shortly), or perhaps trolls like Hamilton made the left here more hostile, but I digress.

Anyway, sometime during the spring or summer of this year, I found that something about this forum was, frankly, pissing me off. While I loved the electoral analysis and the posting of polls and new stories I may not have found on my own, something about this forum was stressing me out. Granted, I found politics in general more frustrating at that point, but not to the same degree than when I was on the forum. Well, your flaws show most when frustrated, and mine certainly did. Among the, a disdain for leftist rhetoric (which to this day I'm not sure as to why I have such disdain), the many contradictions in my world view and, by extension, my political views, and a tendency to lose all coherence and rationality when I get emotional about my argument(s), among other more minor ones I'm sure.

Anyway, a big piece of this frustration came/comes from a (perhaps only personally perceived) lack of balance and many double standards on this forum. A recent even, Libertas' banning, caught my attention today as a clear example. Libertas did troll at times, and was given many second chances, but what irks me is that a number of leftists that I consider trolls (or having trollish tendencies) are not being targeted for a potential banning by the community. Hell, some are even held as indispensable members!

Another example, in my opinion, is the prevalence of threads in the US General Discussion cherry-picking quotes from Tea Party "leaders" (though I dispute that such a decentralized movement doesn't have any true leaders) that reinforce their perceptions that the Tea Party is full of crazy folk. This is (as far as I have seen) tolerated. Last I checked that board the other day (lurking, of course) I found that the top two threads were such anti-Tea Party threads. Similar threads about leftist groups would probably not be tolerated in the same way.

As far as me, personally, I seemed to not be treated with much respect by the left. Indeed, it almost seemed like I became the new boogeyman of the left after DWTL left the forum. Yes, I admit that I was not respectful at times, and even downright mean, but I would like to think (for the most part) they were provoked (obviously I cannot truly be objective when evaluating myself). There are a handful of times when I distinctly remember being personally attacked (at time implicitly, but explicitly at others), responding with an attack that was, in my view proportionate (though I admit that that is not the most mature response), and yet I was getting grief from the community that the poster I was responding to did not. Although, there was one instance where my attack was clearly disproportionate, and I deserved all the grief I got that time.

I don't expect people to agree with me, or even to like me, but I do want respect, which I did not seem to get. True, there were posters who did respect me (predominantly on the right),  but they never seemed to come to my defense. I truly cannot understand why I did not get the respect other libertarian forumites received. Even when they were criticized, it never seemed to have a sharp, personal overtone to it like criticism of me often seemed to have (at times, it seemed that a handful on the left took my political positions personally).


Anyway, this is getting really long, so I'll end it there. Just to provide some context for that rant, I will say that I was and still am going through a very complicated, emotional period (it has nothing to do with politics, and it is not a death or anything so obvious. In fact, I doubt many people would understand it even if I tried to explain it) which obviously contributed to my frustration, immaturity, and such. Though this forum seemed to get under my skin for some reason, I am actually intentionally thinking and reading about politics far less than I did.

Anyway, I'll just finish by emphasizing that I'm not trying to get attention (I am actually a bit of an "attention-phobe" IRL). I didn't even intend to post a thread of this nature when I stopped posting here three weeks ago. However, I feel I need some catharsis.

I don't think I'll post here again in awhile (though I may come and lurk from time to time). Buh-bye.

[Mechaman]

Wow, I really agree with a lot of what Vepres said here.

There is a double standard, a vicious cold blooded double standard.

[fezzyfestoon]

People take this place WAY too seriously.

[SvenssonRS]

Much as these threads are overused, I find that you've chosen one of the best ways to go out in style: by calling out this place's ridiculous double standard. I salute you on that.

Adieu, Vepres. Hopefully, you won't be dragged back. In fact, for your sake, I hope I never see you again.

[Franzl]

lol

Sorry Vepres, but most of your complaints here are paranoid rambling. You're complaining about anti Tea Party threads and saying similiar ones about the left would not be tolerated? Please show me comparable statements made by people outside the Tea Party then! Have you heard Bernie Sanders demand that a large portion of the population be kept from voting??

Stop trying to claim that all sides/views/claims are equal and worthy of respect.

This isn't a personal attack against you, Vepres....but please, try to be somewhat intellectually honest.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

See you after the New Year......have a great holiday, my friend.

[Joe Republic]

You wrote "this is getting really long so I'll end it there", and then write another three paragraphs.

And what Franzl and Fezzy said.

[Sbane]

I don't consider you to be anything close to DWTL, or god forbid, Libertas. You just have more heated arguments than others. So what?

[bullmoose88]

Standard response to this things:

[Ban my account ffs!]

Wow, I really agree with a lot of what Vepres said here.

There is a double standard, a vicious cold blooded double standard.

Mechaman, if I held you to the same standard that I hold everybody else... the forum and all its members would spontaneously combust.  That being a rather unwholesome situation, I'd like to avoid it as much as possible.  I hope you understand. 

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

This isnt a forum for respect. It just isnt. I dont know why, but it wont change anytime soon.

[ilikeverin]

*hughughug*

[Thomas D]

*hughughug*

[courts]

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This isnt a forum for respect. It just isnt. I dont know why, but it wont change anytime soon.

This is Atlas, we don't respect here. If you wanna post here, learn it.

[tmthforu94]

You're a valuable member to the forum, Vepres. While I don't agree with everything you stated, I certainly agree with several key points. A problem on this forum is that there is a lack of respect for the opposing side, something I would like to be changed.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

This isnt a forum for respect. It just isnt. I dont know why, but it wont change anytime soon.

This is Atlas, we don't respect here. If you wanna post here, learn it.

which is unfortunate, and is why we don't have a lot of valuable people here. And why we are lacking in the female gender. oh well.

[courts]

This isnt a forum for respect. It just isnt. I dont know why, but it wont change anytime soon.

This is Atlas, we don't respect here. If you wanna post here, learn it.

which is unfortunate, and is why we don't have a lot of valuable people here. And why we are lacking in the female gender. oh well.

No, that would be the horrible, un-ironic misogyny and constant blathering from certain people about strippers, 'erotic massages,' and WHO WOULD YOU SLEEP WITH polls.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

This isnt a forum for respect. It just isnt. I dont know why, but it wont change anytime soon.

This is Atlas, we don't respect here. If you wanna post here, learn it.

which is unfortunate, and is why we don't have a lot of valuable people here. And why we are lacking in the female gender. oh well.

No, that would be the horrible, un-ironic misogyny and constant blathering from certain people about strippers, 'erotic massages,' and WHO WOULD YOU SLEEP WITH polls.

well hanging out with females we are more grumpy when people are not respectful then when they act immature. Women tend to jump at the chance to have a sexist argument. However I have never seen a girl get pissed a lot then when a person is rude. But that is just what i have seen.

[courts]

I think when you have people seriously posting things like WHAT KIND OF BITCH MAKES YOU STOP it's something more than that.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

You're a valuable member to the forum, Vepres. While I don't agree with everything you stated, I certainly agree with several key points. A problem on this forum is that there is a lack of respect for the opposing side, something I would like to be changed.

The problem is a) there is not enough respect for opposing views, for either side and b) the extremes tend to dominate here, so their time for opposing views tends to be met with screams rather than vibrant discussions.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

lol

Sorry Vepres, but most of your complaints here are paranoid rambling. You're complaining about anti Tea Party threads and saying similiar ones about the left would not be tolerated? Please show me comparable statements made by people outside the Tea Party then! Have you heard Bernie Sanders demand that a large portion of the population be kept from voting??

Stop trying to claim that all sides/views/claims are equal and worthy of respect.

This isn't a personal attack against you, Vepres....but please, try to be somewhat intellectually honest.

Well Claire McCaskil made a statement that if the Republicans get their way on the tax debate, "it is time for the pitchforks to come out". What was that about tea partiers insighting violence? Very similar rhetoric that is often derided as dangerous and even subversive when mouthed by tea partiers.

The constant hyping of "dumb" or "stupid" or "uneducated, anti-science tea partiers" by far leftists at the Colbert rally, who as it turns out couldn't tell the difference between the words "keynesian" and "Kenyan".

You have Debbie Wesserman Schultz, who tried to link Allen West to anti-woman statements made my someone who had at one point published an article in the same magazine which West published some stuff. I am sure if you dig through some of the magazines that Obama has been published in like Rolling Stone, you could find someone with some crazy statements.

I have come to the conclusion that no one really cares anymore about what they throw at someone, as long as it "might" stick. This goes for both sides. If the narrative sounds good and it sticks, go with it. Regardless of hypocrisy or what the truth really is. There are crazy people in the tea party movement just like their are crazies everywhere.

And while no I haven't seen Sanders argue for stricter voting standards I have heard Obama allies and top officials make statements calling for some pretty crazy and extreme things like the "de-industrialization of America and the west" to deal with climate change and inequalities between countries or statements praising foreign dictators. You don't look for the same statement but for extreme statements made from their different ideological perspectives. They are there, you just have to be as eqaully willing to dig to find them as you are willing to dig to find them in the tea party.

All sides and opinion are not worthy of respect. Communism and Facism are unworth of respect. Authoritarianism and Totalitariansim are unworthy of respect. Birthers, Truthers, and LaRouchites are unworthy of respect. However, you reach a point in the picking and chosing of what is legitimate and what isn't, that your political biases enter into the equation. Hence why I oppose any kind of fairness doctrine or public owned and ran media. And when you decide that the bulk of the opposition is "illegitimate" how can you have any ground to also criticize the partisanship and lack of compromise when you are writing off such a large group as unworth of respect and thus deny them the right to have their opinion and in the words of a leftist poster in a another thread, "deny them the right to exist" even?  Unless they fade, you are going to have to learn to accept the tea party as a part of the political scene.  

Sometimes you drive me crazy, Franzl.

[King]

Everything will be okay.

[Lunar]

Another example, in my opinion, is the prevalence of threads in the US General Discussion cherry-picking quotes from Tea Party "leaders" (though I dispute that such a decentralized movement doesn't have any true leaders) that reinforce their perceptions that the Tea Party is full of crazy folk. This is (as far as I have seen) tolerated. Last I checked that board the other day (lurking, of course) I found that the top two threads were such anti-Tea Party threads. Similar threads about leftist groups would probably not be tolerated in the same way.

I'm not sure how much anything on the US General Election board can be held as an example of anything in terms of moderation.  I was working on political campaigns through election season and too busy to do much on that board, and for administrative reasons, intentionally avoided more than the barest of moderating for the last few weeks (I deleted an nkspam thread and helped silence a Hamilton sock but that's it -- I even denied someone's request to merge two threads who PM'd me.).  I probably wouldn't have deleted pornography from the board had any been posted last week.

I'm planning to reengage the board now that I have the internet set up at my apartment.