Obama shows takes a stand, showing some serious spine

[Landslide Lyndon]

OK, jfern, instead of just saying, "Well if you like it, it must be bad!" what would you actually be OK with Obama proposing?

Give me something solid and tangible instead of just complaining about my economic PM score.

Well, I'm not jfern but I read that House Democrats would be content with an estate tax rate of 45% with an exemption up to 3,5 mil., instead of the deal's 35% and 1mil. which even Republicans admit that it's way better than what they expected.   

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

OK, jfern, instead of just saying, "Well if you like it, it must be bad!" what would you actually be OK with Obama proposing?

Give me something solid and tangible instead of just complaining about my economic PM score.

No deal is better than this deal. And from that starting point, you automatically get a better deal, since you take no deal if you get some totally one-sided deal like this one, which is all tax cuts except for the unemployment benefits, which Republicans had agreed to extend in the past, and Congress always extended in the past for much lesser recessions. This deal has the full Bush income tax cuts, the full Bush capital gains tax cuts, and a pretty major estate tax cut, too. The payroll tax thing was actually a Republican idea. So yeah, it's pretty heavily slanted towards the party that doesn't have the Presidency or the Senate, and still doesn't have the House.

We already tried low taxes this last decade. We had 2 million more jobs a decade ago. We don't need to see again if tax cuts for the rich help the economy. The answer is a resounding no.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

jfern, you still aren't answering my question.  Instead of saying what you don't want, what do you want?  Give me some tangible starting point for what you would like to see President Obama propose...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

He'd be pushed into not running before somebody challenges him.  A challenger would kill the Democratic party.

That's an 'excessive hyperbole' worthy statement right there.  A challenger might cost the Democrats any chance of regaining the House or keeping the Senate and the White House in 2012, but under the political climate that would induce a serious challenge, controlling either house of Congress in the 113th wouldn't be happening anyway.

It's not an excessive hyperbole worthy statement.  If you had a serious challenge against an African American President, and the challenger wasn't an African American, I think you'd see a large amount of alienation from the African American part of the party.  If there's a serious 2012 challenger, I don't think the Democrats would win the White House back before 2028.

EDIT: and if you truly thought what I said was excessive hyperbole, you would have reported it.  So let's not go around throwing baseless accusations at me just trying to score a quick point against me.

I always thought excessive hyperbole was a ridiculous reason for an infraction.  But there's nothing an Obama challenger could do that would kill the Democratic Party.  Maybe harm it some in the short term, but certainly not kill it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Republicans didn't get everything they wanted.  They didn't get a permanent extension of the current rates and caved on only funding additional unemployment benefits if offset by spending cuts.  You have to give a little to get a little.  And, quite frankly, the liberal Democrats have an extremely weak hand right now.

The Republicans in Congress don't want a permanent extension of the tax rates.  They want to be able to "cut" taxes again without actually cutting them.  A two year temporary tax cut means that these will be a campaign issue in 2012, which is a major political mistake for Obama and the Democrats.  While we hopefully will have started to see a strong recovery by then, the economy will still be weak compared to where it was before the bubble burst and unemployment will still be high.

As for a weak hand for the Democrats, it's still stronger than what the Republicans had in the past two years.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

jfern, you still aren't answering my question.  Instead of saying what you don't want, what do you want?  Give me some tangible starting point for what you would like to see President Obama propose...

Nothing is better than this crap. But OK. Estate tax effect on the economy? Zero. So leave any estate tax cut out. Maybe a phase in capital gains tax. Have a deal consisting of the Bush income tax plus that payroll holiday for unemployment. Try to get more than 99 weeks for unemployment. Try to get a 2nd year of unemployment, although perhaps at only 79 weeks. Try to get a mini-stimulus as opposed to a deal that is entirely tax cuts besides the unemployment.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The title needs changed, so I changed it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The title needs changed, so I changed it.

Defending tax cuts for the rich is hard work when you can just have someone come in and do your job for you while you go to some party with your fellow rich.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "kill," but I think it'd ruin them for decades.  And we'd certainly see the current form of the Democratic Party be killed.  The "Democratic Party" would probably carry on in name, but it wouldn't be the same party it is now.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

jfern, you still aren't answering my question.  Instead of saying what you don't want, what do you want?  Give me some tangible starting point for what you would like to see President Obama propose...

Nothing is better than this crap. But OK. Estate tax effect on the economy? Zero. So leave any estate tax cut out. Maybe a phase in capital gains tax. Have a deal consisting of the Bush income tax plus that payroll holiday for unemployment. Try to get more than 99 weeks for unemployment. Try to get a 2nd year of unemployment, although perhaps at only 79 weeks. Try to get a mini-stimulus as opposed to a deal that is entirely tax cuts besides the unemployment.

To my knowledge, Democrats were never pushing for more than 99 weeks unemployment.

The Republicans agreed to not push for permanent Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy... that was something they budged on.  They budged on extending unemployment.

They got what they wanted in estate taxes and capital gains taxes, although even Clinton lowered capital gains taxes and that helped the economy, so I'm not really sure that I'd mark that one as a "win" in the Republicans' column.

Look, I think the fact that President Clinton came in and appeared at the press conference today shows how good of a deal for both parties this is... and probably best of all for Obama.  If Obama follows in the steps of Clinton, he'll end up winning reelection.