Obamacare Unconstitutional.......
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2024, 12:02:14 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Obamacare Unconstitutional.......
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8
Author Topic: Obamacare Unconstitutional.......  (Read 14537 times)
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,022
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2010, 07:34:30 PM »


Of course.  Nobody's arguing against that fact.

But if you want to follow the theory of originalism(?) then all electronic media are defenseless against government's oppression since the people who wrote the constitution never intended to protect them.

They never intended for the government to have power over them, either.

That's a pretty low hurdle compared with actual protection from the constitution.

In an originalist interpretation, the only powers of the federal government are those few, defined powers specified by the Constitution.  No mention is just as good as a textual protection.

And really, a textual protection is just as much of a "low" hurdle.  See: the Patriot Act.
Logged
The Mikado
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,767


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2010, 07:39:40 PM »

Obviously, the solution is to have the State of CA shut down Morgan's ISP.  After all, he doesn't believe in the integration of Amendments to apply to state governments (Gitlow, Mapp, Gideon, now Heller, etc.), and there's nothing stopping Cali from doing that.
Logged
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,022
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2010, 07:55:18 PM »

Obviously, the solution is to have the State of CA shut down Morgan's ISP.  After all, he doesn't believe in the integration of Amendments to apply to state governments (Gitlow, Mapp, Gideon, now Heller, etc.), and there's nothing stopping Cali from doing that.


The people have to be vigilant over their state governments.  There's no reason why a state government should be more corrupt or threatening to liberty than the federal government.

That being said, I believe the Bill of Rights should be integrated to apply to the states, but by Constitutional amendment.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2010, 09:20:31 PM »

Obviously, the solution is to have the State of CA shut down Morgan's ISP.  After all, he doesn't believe in the integration of Amendments to apply to state governments (Gitlow, Mapp, Gideon, now Heller, etc.), and there's nothing stopping Cali from doing that.


The people have to be vigilant over their state governments.  There's no reason why a state government should be more corrupt or threatening to liberty than the federal government.

That being said, I believe the Bill of Rights should be integrated to apply to the states, but by Constitutional amendment.

I think the Bill of Rights was, by the 14th Amendment.
Logged
Torie
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,076
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -4.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2010, 09:28:20 PM »

Oh dear, Sam, I don't know a thing about the "necessary and proper" clause. I guess I will have to look into that, and read Hudson's friggin' opinion. Boo!  Sad
Logged
anvi
anvikshiki
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,400
Netherlands


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #80 on: December 16, 2010, 02:09:21 AM »
« Edited: December 16, 2010, 02:36:25 AM by anvikshiki »

Really enjoyed this post.

As a next step: What about Congress making some legal reform so that people must prove they have the ability to pay before treatment is proved.   If one of the core issues is the cost burden of emergency room care being shifted to the public, and if addressing this through insurance mandates isnt going to work, then address it from the other direction.  

I know its cold and callous but that might resonate with conservatives.

Thanks, Willk.  

I can see the logic in your alternative.  But treating it from the other direction will create several other problems.  A law flatly denying service to those who can't pay contradicts the already-existing federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), which forces providers to offer treatment to people whose lives are in imminent danger or who are in active labor.  The kind of thing you're proposing would either have to rescind EMTALA or be written with an exception for cases of emergency and active labor, but in the latter case, we would still end up with a considerable cost-shifting problem because providers would still be compelled to offer care in many cases where compensation is not available through the patient.  The envisioned law would also still have to provide means-tested subsidies for the poor, so that they're not just completely shut out of health coverage.

Also, in a moral sense, I don't much fancy the idea of punishing people who need immediate care.  I'd prefer to punish people who irresponsibly refuse to acquire health insurance even though they are able, and help finance other necessary components of health care while we're at it.  I think a mandate and an accompanying penalty for non-compliance is the best way to do this, and many, many other countries have found this latter arrangement extremely effective in accomplishing these ends.  Of course, citizens in other democratic countries with universal health care have proven themselves much less resistant to mandates than we Americans, with our commerce clause, are.  
Logged
Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
hantheguitarman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,025


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2011, 04:26:03 PM »

Well, another judge just struck down Obamacare as unconstitutional: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110131/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul
Logged
Dunce
AndrewJackson111
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2011, 04:33:02 PM »


Cheesy Yes! This is great news!
Logged
krazen1211
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,372


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2011, 04:33:21 PM »


This is really becoming a damn mess.
Logged
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,179
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #84 on: January 31, 2011, 04:46:58 PM »

Which part of the constitution to shoot Healthcare Reform down?
Logged
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,827
Ukraine
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #85 on: January 31, 2011, 04:53:45 PM »

Jesus Christ, the judge even included a shout out to the "Tea Party" in his ruling. *cringe*

Also, this is the textbook definition of judicial activism, but that's not surprising.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2011, 04:59:15 PM »

We should all pray that if they do declare the individual mandate void, that they strike down the whole bill, for if they don't, lololol.
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,763
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2011, 05:01:52 PM »

This is a victory for those who love freedom
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,137
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #88 on: January 31, 2011, 05:03:43 PM »

So much for judges being independent.
Logged
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,827
Ukraine
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #89 on: January 31, 2011, 05:06:58 PM »


Oh good God. Someone could write a little computer program that generates random pseudo-libertarian nonsense and spews it into a post every now and again and I think we'd have a note perfect imitation of your posting history.
Logged
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,298
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2011, 05:09:06 PM »

The constitution is unconstitutional and an illegal document.
Logged
Landslide Lyndon
px75
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,840
Greece


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2011, 05:11:47 PM »


Is this the latest Sarah Palin tweet?
Logged
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,827
Ukraine
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2011, 05:18:07 PM »

From the New York Times -

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Hilarious.
Logged
Landslide Lyndon
px75
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,840
Greece


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2011, 05:30:32 PM »

From the New York Times -

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Hilarious.

Yeah, they got excited because their sister kissed them.
Logged
Free Palestine
FallenMorgan
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,022
United States
Political Matrix
E: -10.00, S: -10.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2011, 05:42:17 PM »

The constitution is unconstitutional and an illegal document.

You should write lyrics for an anarcho-punk band.
Logged
Dunce
AndrewJackson111
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2011, 05:42:45 PM »


Amen!!
Logged
DrScholl
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,137
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2011, 05:48:04 PM »

From the New York Times -

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Hilarious.

Such a complete surprise that they got favorable ruling.
Logged
CARLHAYDEN
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,638


Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -0.51

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2011, 05:53:31 PM »

The constitution is unconstitutional and an illegal document.

You've truly outdone yourself!

Are you angling for an appointment to the bench from Obama?
Logged
Dunce
AndrewJackson111
Rookie
**
Posts: 53
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2011, 06:19:31 PM »

The constitution is unconstitutional and an illegal document.

I've read a few of your posts, and they make my head hurt. I seriously hope a majority of your posts are not this idiotic.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2011, 06:23:35 PM »


Oh good God. Someone could write a little computer program that generates random pseudo-libertarian nonsense and spews it into a post every now and again and I think we'd have a note perfect imitation of your posting history.


I just love our on-site libertarians. All have obviously regular and comfortable internet access, which implies they're not poor. So why would they care about those in less fortunate life situation?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.047 seconds with 12 queries.