The Posting of Private Messages

[Smash255]

If someone  on here starts throwing around the n word the s word (for Spanish people) and the k word (for Jewish people) in a bunch of instant messages the way Assad use to do here on the board, other posters have a right to know what we are dealing with.    A moderator isn't going to do anything over private messages.

A moderator won't do anything about private messages...and the forum will? Post the generalities of the conversation.

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I don't even understand the point of this. "Everyone, beware! There's a racist here."

If you don't plan on reporting the posts then what the hell does "warning" everyone do?

All I'm saying is if we have racist and anti-semitic scumbags on here ala Assad or Stark, other posters have a right to know. 

[Keystone Phil]

If someone  on here starts throwing around the n word the s word (for Spanish people) and the k word (for Jewish people) in a bunch of instant messages the way Assad use to do here on the board, other posters have a right to know what we are dealing with.    A moderator isn't going to do anything over private messages.

A moderator won't do anything about private messages...and the forum will? Post the generalities of the conversation.

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I don't even understand the point of this. "Everyone, beware! There's a racist here."

If you don't plan on reporting the posts then what the hell does "warning" everyone do?

All I'm saying is if we have racist and anti-semitic scumbags on here ala Assad or Stark, other posters have a right to know. 

Smash, I get your point even though it's a silly one (a la every other Smash "point").

[bullmoose88]

Its common courtesy and in the observance of decorum that PMs are not posted publically.  

Dave's own rule is:

Personal messages should not be posted in the general forum without the written permission of the person who sent the PM.

Thanks,
Dave

"should(s)" are aspirational...NOT mandatory language.  Frankly the rule must be changed to read "may not" but as long as Dave's promulgation is "should not" then really there is poor ground to hand out infraction points.

Dave needs to reissue the rule using the "may not" language.  Until then, we're working on the informal convention of decency and decorum...which really...in a place like this...I'm surprised we're just getting to it now.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Private messages are private. I support this rule.

I support common sense as well.

If it's common sense, there doesn't need to be a declaration of a rule about it.

Common sense doesn't exist in this world much anymore sadly.

Like I said.  This "decree" or whatever you guys want to call it isn't a blanket rule.  But if X posts a PM from Y and Y reports it, you can be 99% sure that that WILL be an infraction.

If X posts a PM from Y that says, "Hi, you're cool,"  there's a 0.000000000000001% chance that that's ever going to get an infraction.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Could the rule perhaps be amended so that PMs aren't deleted unless they:

1. Contain information that is obviously sensitive and personal, and which a person would likely want deleted as soon as possible if they did not want that information to become public knowledge.

2. Are reported by the original PMer him or herself.

or

3. Are from a member who is no longer active.

?

That way only the ones people would object to being posted couldn't be posted.

I'm not going to make set rules here... it's going to be a more subjective rule.  But, if you want to be safe, don't post PMs before asking for permission.  If you have permission, you have NOTHING to worry about.

If it's from somebody who's no longer active, you probably have less to worry about, but I'm not comfortable giving a definitive yes/no on that.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Its common courtesy and in the observance of decorum that PMs are not posted publically.  

Dave's own rule is:

Personal messages should not be posted in the general forum without the written permission of the person who sent the PM.

Thanks,
Dave

"should(s)" are aspirational...NOT mandatory language.  Frankly the rule must be changed to read "may not" but as long as Dave's promulgation is "should not" then really there is poor ground to hand out infraction points.

Dave needs to reissue the rule using the "may not" language.  Until then, we're working on the informal convention of decency and decorum...which really...in a place like this...I'm surprised we're just getting to it now.

That was Dave's rule which then led to an infraction.  His intent was clear, in both the minds of Mikado, myself, and most of the rest of the mod staff.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

So, fezzy, am I correct in assuming that you don't object to the posting of any PMs by you?

[dead0man]

Two things I'd like to add to the lovely conversation we're having....
1.Of course it's common courtesy to not post someone else's private message to you.  Of course most people know this because it is common courtesy.  Of course you have to learn common courtesy somewhere and this is one of those somewheres.
2.Don't send somebody a private message unless you don't care if the whole world sees it.  Just like a post on this (or any) message board.  Once you press that send button you no longer have control over it and it may be used against you.

[Keystone Phil]

So, fezzy, am I correct in assuming that you don't object to the posting of any PMs by you?

Please, don't pull him back into this. He's probably busy taking his anger out on someone else.

[bullmoose88]

That was Dave's rule which then led to an infraction.  His intent was clear, in both the minds of Mikado, myself, and most of the rest of the mod staff.

With all due respect, the interpretation by most of the mods is not supported by the plain reading of the rule.

If Dave wanted it to be an infractable offense, then he needs to re-write the rule.  That shouldn't much trouble if as you say, his intent is clear...it could of course be difficult to get him to do so given the slow wheels of Dave's forum action.

The text of the rule,  to us commoners, does not support the conclusion that posting PMs is an infractable offense.  These are Dave's forums, if he had wanted the rule to empower the mod staff to act in the way it has acted, then he had the power and the means to do so by using language as must not, may not, or shall not.  But, instead, he clearly wrote "should not."  Your argument implies that a mistake occurred in its creation.  I prefer to err on the side that Dave deliberately wrote the rule as it currently stands.   His choice of aspirational language and not mandatory language supports a different conclusion (absent some other as of yet unseen promulgation): that Dave merely requested--not demanded--some friggin common sense and decency.

I personally have no problem with posting PMs becoming an infractable offense.  That's preferable to the "gentleman's code" we currently have.  Until the rule is changed, though, the present text does NOT support the majority stance by the mods.

[Platypus]

From a moderator, about a moderator, sent to me in 2005:

"I don't mean to sound mean, but I really can't understand most of the things he's talking about.  He uses ten words when two will do"

Nothing juicy, but private. I have no right to publish the details as far as who/from goes, nor to hint at who sent it and who it referred to. I understand that most of us wouldn't post it, but some are less than courteous, or lose their courtesy over time.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So what triggered this clarification?

Keystone Phil.

[Keystone Phil]

So what triggered this clarification?

Keystone Phil.

Still bitter, eh?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So what triggered this clarification?

Keystone Phil.

Still bitter, eh?

You've opened a pandora box, sir.

[fezzyfestoon]

So, fezzy, am I correct in assuming that you don't object to the posting of any PMs by you?

Absolutely.  I don't send people things I wouldn't want on the board.

So, fezzy, am I correct in assuming that you don't object to the posting of any PMs by you?

Please, don't pull him back into this. He's probably busy taking his anger out on someone else.

Haha don't confuse my perpetual frustration with your extreme drama with any sort of anger.  The minute this place starts to affect me like that, I'm out of here.

I'm not concerned and STILL don't get what the big fuss is about, that was my point from the beginning.  As usual, Phil turns a minute issue into a colossal confrontation without any substance.  I can't believe I still get lured into his bullshit, but whatever.  My point was pretty clear to even BRTD, I think that was enough.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm not concerned and STILL don't get what the big fuss is about, that was my point from the beginning.  As usual, Phil turns a minute issue into a colossal confrontation without any substance.  I can't believe I still get lured into his bullshit, but whatever.  My point was pretty clear to even BRTD, I think that was enough.

I'm not the one throwing a fit about a common sense policy. Amazing how I'm being dramatic yet you were the one insisting on questioning the policy just for the sake of questioning it over and over and over again. You're the one making this a confrontation especially with your extremely nasty tone. Again, when a spoiled child doesn't get what he or she wants, they throw a fit.

You don't see a problem with posting private messages. Ok. Let it go. We want private messages to remain private. It's not a matter of feeling the need to hide stuff. I just don't want what I say in confidence aired out all over the boards and I think most agree with me.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

To all my friends and those with honest disagreements, your dirtiest secrets are safe with me

[Keystone Phil]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

Yeah, people do call your out publicly and you still run away. 

[k-onmmunist]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

To all my friends and those with honest disagreements, your dirtiest secrets are safe with me

Okay then. Stop being a creep about Annie.

There.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

Yeah, people do call your out publicly and you still run away. 

I didn't say I'd respond to jackasses, drama queens and trolls when they call me out publicly, I said just do it publicly.  

[Keystone Phil]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

Yeah, people do call your out publicly and you still run away. 

I didn't say I'd respond to jackasses, drama queens and trolls when they call me out publicly, I said just do it publicly.  

So what's the point? When we do both, you still act like a coward.

Yeah, do us that other favor and realize you're a 50-something. Stop hitting on a 15 year old girl. Thanks!

[k-onmmunist]

Warning to jackasses, drama queens and trolls:  If you send me a PM bitching and moaning at me for something I said on the message boards, be prepared to see it here....I'd rather you call me out publicly.

Yeah, people do call your out publicly and you still run away. 

I didn't say I'd respond to jackasses, drama queens and trolls when they call me out publicly, I said just do it publicly.  

So what's the point? When we do both, you still act like a coward.

Yeah, do us that other favor and realize you're a 50-something. Stop hitting on a 15 year old girl. Thanks!

She's 18 actually But yeah, point still stands. I don't appreciate 50 year olds hitting on my girlfriend. Well, I don't appreciate anyone doing it. That's one of my problems with PiT.

[fezzyfestoon]

That's a stupid rule.

This was my post.  SO dramatic.

And how about we let the girl defend herself.  Stop trying to pretend to be all macho and protective over the internet.

[Keystone Phil]

That's a stupid rule.

This was my post.  SO dramatic.

Your ensuing posts were.

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Acting macho? Ha. That might be what other people want to do around here but certainly not me. I just want the guy to stop acting creepy. He's 50-something, for Christ's sake.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I just PM'd a friend that we should go get a drink, and he agreed.......his secret is exposed!!!!!!!  Bottoms up!